Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

DmitriNotPetra
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Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#1

Post by DmitriNotPetra » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:38 am

The Jamal Khashoggi situation came out of left field. Given Kushner's dealings with the Saudis, I can imagine that this may drag him or another administration official in the whole mess. At its very basic, when you go around calling reporters from the Washington Post "Enemies of the people," and then one of those reporters ends up murdered and dismembered, well, it just looks bad. Thoughts?


Also, not I actually think there's any connection, but there is this:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 56956.html



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Dan1100
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#2

Post by Dan1100 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:58 am

Trump's base doesn't care about one less [insert racial epithet of your choice that has camel or sand in it], especially one that is a part of the lying lame stream media. The captive so called "traditional conservatives" care more about their tax rates and stock portfolios than about one less [insert racial epithet of your choice that has camel or sand in it], and won't turn on Trump unless the trade war forces them to.

The people who do care already don't support Trump.

Trump will tell a couple of obvious lies with a straight face and that will be it, at least until after midterms.


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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#3

Post by Orlylicious » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:26 am

We knew something was sketchy as soon as we saw this photo... what was that trip about again exactly? :think:

TrumpSalmanGlowingOrb.jpg
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#4

Post by Lani » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:29 am

Mark Follman

@markfollman
Why might the Saudis think they could get away with murdering a journalist who lived in the United States and wrote for the Washington Post? https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... a-threats/ … #JamalKhashoggi

5:51 PM - Oct 10, 2018

Trump's "enemy of the people" rhetoric is endangering journalists' lives
Law enforcement and security leaders detail a disturbing rise in violent threats.

motherjones.com



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HST's Ghost
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#5

Post by HST's Ghost » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:37 am

Sure, and let's get our priorities straight also...
Twenty-two senators wrote to Mr Trump invoking the Global Magnitsky Human Rights Accountability Act, which requires the president to open an investigation and determine whether sanctions should be imposed.

The act is used in cases of suspected "extrajudicial killing, torture, or other gross violation of internationally recognised human rights against an individual exercising freedom of expression," the senators said.

Asked in the Fox interview about suggestions in Congress that arms sales to the kingdom be blocked, Mr Trump replied that such a move would hurt the US economy.

"Frankly, I think that would be a very, very tough pill to swallow for our country," he said.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/1 ... khashoggi/
Oh well, there it is, the overarching thought to the Drumpf doctrine. 'He may be an SOB, but's he's our SOB...and rich, beautifully loaded, and all his fellow shakes too'...The "Deep State" (actually the Military Industrial Complex) and "Swamp" (Sheldon Adelson for one) are still firmly ensconced in the DC corridors of power...


Either give me more wine or leave me alone. - Rumi

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HST's Ghost
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#6

Post by HST's Ghost » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:46 am

Oh but, money does speak...
Scoop: Obama energy secretary suspends role in Saudi megaproject

Ernest Moniz, former energy secretary for President Barack Obama, is suspending his involvement advising Saudi Arabia on a proposed city mega-project until more information is made available regarding the disappearance — and possible assassination — of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

:snippity:

Saudi Arabia, whose state-owned oil company pumps out far more oil than any other company, is seeking to diversify its oil-dependent economy.
“In particular, I have been asked to offer guidance on achieving zero net greenhouse gas emissions. Success with this vision will have global implications for a low-carbon future,” Moniz said.

Why it matters: Moniz’s move shows how geopolitical disputes, and in this case a potentially tragic one, can have spillover effects into wholly unrelated issues like business and energy.

The details: Moniz said he was invited to join an international advisory board for the development of NEOM, whose cost is estimated to be around $500 billion.

:snippity:


“I share the deep concerns of many about the disappearance and possible assassination of Jamal Khashoggi at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul. … The recent trend in many countries of targeting journalists for doing their jobs is a fundamental threat to freedom of the press, human rights and the rule of law.”
— Ernest Moniz, former Energy Secretary

https://www.axios.com/obama-energy-secr ... dc1e0.html
The quote from Moniz sounds like something the POTUSA would say :think: Iffin' he had more than the few putrified brain cells to rub together...other times, other places...


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HST's Ghost
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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#7

Post by HST's Ghost » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:59 am

Super apologize for the triple-shot but y'all is sleeping and it is my post-work wind-down time :mrgreen:

Stop Military Aid to Saudi Arabia
The regime must be held accountable for Jamal Khashoggi.
Rand Paul

For years, I have decried our country’s involvement in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are a state sponsor of radical Islam, and their war on Yemen, a poor Arab country, has led to many thousands of civilian deaths.

The Saudis have provided at least 2,500 fighters to the Islamic State in Syria, making them the second-largest source of foreign fighters for the group on a per capita basis, after Tunisia.

News reports from 2013 stated that the Saudis offered more than 1,200 death-row inmates a pardon and a monthly stipend for their families to go fight the Syrian government.

In 2009, U.S. officials said Saudi Arabia was the “most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.” And in 2014, those same officials wrote that Qatar and Saudi Arabia were “providing clandestine financial and logistic support to [the Islamic State] and other radical Sunni groups.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ns/572692/
I realize Randie is out on his own in a Libertarian-Isolationist island a lot, so I am not sure how many other Senate repubs would side with him, but always interesting to see a possible fracture among Repubs...Unless they try to paint Khashoggi as pro-ISIS or similar. Or he miraculously shows up...Or there is definitive proof that it was some Turkish scheme, as the life of a journalist seems rather cheap in that country also...


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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#8

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:04 am

Jamal Khashoggi: details of alleged Saudi hit squad emerge
Fifteen-person team linked to disappearance of dissident, Turkish media report

Martin Chulov in Istanbul and Bethan McKernan
Wed 10 Oct 2018 18.44 BST First published on Wed 10 Oct 2018 11.33 BST

Saudi special forces officers, intelligence officials, national guards and a forensics expert were allegedly among a 15-person team tied to the disappearance in Istanbul of the high-profile dissident Jamal Khashoggi, it has been reported by Turkish pro-government newspapers.

The details of the alleged hit squad were listed on flight manifests leaked to Turkish media. Social media profiles of some of the alleged suspects link them to elite sections of the Saudi security apparatus.

Meanwhile, investigators are turning their focus towards the underground garage of the Saudi consul general’s home, where the cars thought to have carried Khashoggi are believed to have to have been driven immediately after they left the nearby consulate.

Investigators also disclosed on Wednesday that they were focusing on an Apple watch that Khashoggi was wearing that was connected to an iPhone he had left with his fiancee outside the consulate. “We have determined that it was on him when he walked into the consulate,” a security official told Reuters. Investigators are seeking to determine what information the watch had transmitted.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... appearance



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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#9

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:08 am

Jamal Khashoggi: Saudi Arabia under pressure from Trump administration
Fallout from journalist’s disappearance could redefine Washington-Riyadh ties

Martin Chulov in Istanbul and Patrick Wintour in London
Thu 11 Oct 2018 13.04 BST Last modified on Thu 11 Oct 2018 14.02 BST

Saudi Arabia is facing unprecedented diplomatic pressure from the Trump administration and other allies to provide a credible account of how Jamal Khashoggi vanished at its consulate in Istanbul, with reports in the US implicating the powerful crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, in plans to abduct the dissident journalist.

The US secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, Donald Trump’s national security adviser, John Bolton, and the president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, have pointedly asked the kingdom’s de facto ruler to explain what happened inside its diplomatic mission nine days ago, as evidence continues to mount that Khashoggi was killed and dismembered.

A relentless drip feed of information from Turkish officials and intercepted communications appear to have captured the planning phase of an alleged crime that has shattered diplomatic norms and rocked both Ankara and Riyadh. A report in the Washington Post, citing US intelligence sources, said Bin Salman had earlier authorised an operation to lure Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia and detain him.

The Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, has challenged Saudi Arabia to provide CCTV images to back up its claims Khashoggi had left the consulate safely, indicating he did not find the current Saudi explanations sufficient.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... nistration



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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#10

Post by fierceredpanda » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:33 pm

Trump and Kushner (let's remember that MBS is Kushner's buddy first and foremost) have absolutely no long-term vision on foreign policy beyond what is good for the Trump brand for the next news cycle. Betting all your chips on Saudi Arabia right now is like deciding to invest in Tesla right now. The smart money wants to get out.

Consider the long-hyped and never delivered IPO for Saudi Aramco - aka, the Saudi national oil company. Mohammed bin Salman keeps insisting they will offer it some time in the future at a valuation of $2 trillion, which is something like twice what any analysts think it could conceivably be worth. Taking their entire national petroleum industry to investors only makes sense if the royal family thinks the wisest course is to extract as much cash up front for their resources as possible, before global demand starts to decline and oil prices tumble. Given Kushner's propensity for massively overpaying for things, I'd be shocked if he didn't want a slice of that sweet, sweet IPO.

Meanwhile, Canada tweeted one sentence that was accurately critical of Saudi Arabia's abysmal record on human rights, and the Saudi government responded with a massive overreaction. Yanked their ambassador in Ottawa, expelled a bunch of Canadian diplomats, and generally went totally insane over one lousy tweet. And now this. These are not the actions of a confident government.

All the while, they're trying to buy as much military equipment as possible just as fast as they can - partly to continue their war in Yemen, partly to keep bullying Qatar, and partly to have around for when the oil and patronage dollars stop flowing and they have a revolution on their hands.

If Saudi Arabia were a publicly-traded stock (and they want to become one, for all intents and purposes), the sell light would be blinking right about now. So of course Trump wants to buy in even more.


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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#11

Post by Chilidog » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:15 pm

Is there any suggestion that the Trump administration had anything to do with his murder?



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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#12

Post by DmitriNotPetra » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:36 pm

You mean besides giving the Saudis the idea that maybe he'd look the other way of a journalist went missing?



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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#13

Post by fierceredpanda » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:40 pm

If US intelligence had information about this in advance (and the Washington Post's reporting certainly gives that impression), it seems implausible that the DNI or the DCI would not have informed the White House for a determination about whether any action ought to be taken.

Put it this way: It sure sounds like MBS and his hit squad didn't exactly try to keep their communications secure, and anyone in MBS' position has to assume the NSA is listening. They didn't care, because they knew Trump wouldn't care about what they were planning.

Also Trump is an awful liar, and he's claiming he didn't know anything.


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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#14

Post by Lani » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:40 pm

DmitriNotPetra wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:36 pm
You mean besides giving the Saudis the idea that maybe he'd look the other way of a journalist went missing?
And Jared disclosing the names of Saudi dissidents?


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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#15

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:19 pm

Chilidog wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:15 pm
Is there any suggestion that the Trump administration had anything to do with his murder?
Well, dotus is disparaging the press in general and the Saudis may have taken it as an indicator the Drumpf administration may look the other way. :think:



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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#16

Post by Orlylicious » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:44 pm

One of my main objections to the Bush 43 administration was letting Saudi Arabia off the hook for 9/11. I lived in downtown Manhattan. Everyone involved was Saudi. Bush's love of oil led us into disastrous wars against countries not even involved while he went hand in hand with Saudi King Abdullah. Sorry this is a bit off topic but the point is there's no doubt in my mind the Saudis did this. Question is how much Mr. Perfect was involved or agreed to look the other way. This is going to keep blowing up.

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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#17

Post by Gregg » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:53 pm

Jared, in the Executive Office Building, with the candlestick.

(honestly, I think he just said "not on US Soil" and they lured him to Turkey to do it.)


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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#18

Post by Northland10 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:31 am

fierceredpanda wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:40 pm
Also Trump is an awful liar, and he's claiming he didn't know anything.
They could have briefed him multiple times and he still could claim he didn't know a thing. It wasn't about him so he doesn't pay attention.


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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#19

Post by Slim Cognito » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:36 am

Just crawling out of bed, but last night I was seeing tweets that (apparently) the Turkish gov. had bugged the Saudi embassy and that's how they know about the murder and dismemberment. I'll have to see if I can find those links this morning but it makes sense. The chances that every embassy has been bugged by their host country are probably pretty high, and higher in some countries than others. I'd bet Turkey is pretty high.


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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#20

Post by Kendra » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:39 am

Slim Cognito wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:36 am
Just crawling out of bed, but last night I was seeing tweets that (apparently) the Turkish gov. had bugged the Saudi embassy and that's how they know about the murder and dismemberment. I'll have to see if I can find those links this morning but it makes sense. The chances that every embassy has been bugged by their host country are probably pretty high, and higher in some countries than others. I'd bet Turkey is pretty high.
It's all over the news now. Saw a WAPO story and CNN reporting it. Wish I'd been sleeping instead...



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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#21

Post by Slim Cognito » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:45 am

Kendra wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:39 am
Slim Cognito wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:36 am
Just crawling out of bed, but last night I was seeing tweets that (apparently) the Turkish gov. had bugged the Saudi embassy and that's how they know about the murder and dismemberment. I'll have to see if I can find those links this morning but it makes sense. The chances that every embassy has been bugged by their host country are probably pretty high, and higher in some countries than others. I'd bet Turkey is pretty high.
It's all over the news now. Saw a WAPO story and CNN reporting it. Wish I'd been sleeping instead...
Here's the WaPo link.
Turks tell U.S. officials they have audio and video recordings that support conclusion Khashoggi was killed
https://t.co/D5sKWBYmJh


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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#22

Post by NotaPerson » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:49 am

‘It’s not a citizen’: Trump telegraphs a soft line on Jamal Khashoggi -- even as evidence becomes more damning
Later on Thursday, Trump repeatedly alluded to the fact that Khashoggi was not a U.S. citizen. “It’s in Turkey, and it’s not a citizen, as I understand it," he said. "But a thing like that shouldn’t happen.” Trump added later: “Again, this took place in Turkey, and to the best of our knowledge, Khashoggi is not a United States citizen. Is that right?” An aide specified that Khashoggi has been a permanent U.S. resident.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 15b1e18c49

:(


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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#23

Post by Kendra » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:17 pm


The Saudi ambassador to the U.S. texted @jonathanvswan on Monday denying allegations that the Saudi government was involved in the Khashoggi disappearance. He responded: 'Do you have footage of him leaving the consulate?' and is still waiting for a reply.
Is this going to be the main thread to discuss the disappearance? Or just if it ensnares Trump? Asking for a friend :bag:



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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#24

Post by neeneko » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:45 pm

Slim Cognito wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:45 am
Turks tell U.S. officials they have audio and video recordings that support conclusion Khashoggi was killed
This is a part of the story that really has me scratching my head. Not that Turkey had bugged the embassy, but that they decided to reveal it publically like this. This, combined with their threats to search the embassy for the body, seems like a rather major diplomatic bridge burning and loss of potential intelligence.

What is Turkey getting out of this to justify the cost?



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Re: Jamal Khashoggi murder... will it ensnare Trump?

#25

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:43 pm

Has anyone determined definitively if he's a US citizen or not?



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