Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

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mmmirele
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Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by mmmirele » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:25 pm

I'm setting up a separate topic for this, to keep track of the crazy that's coming out.

Basically, this is a recurring scam coming out of the whole notion that your birth certificate is monetized, which then goes into all that strawman crazy. As far as I understand it, every person has an account at the Federal Reserve under a separate number (maybe even your Social Security number). You can tap into this account if you have the right routing number and the right account number. You'll see people referring to their TDAs which are Treasury Direct Accounts. Now TDAs are a legitimate thing, per the website:
TreasuryDirect is the first and only financial services website that lets you buy and redeem securities directly from the U.S. Department of the Treasury in paperless electronic form. You enjoy the flexibility of managing your savings portfolio online as your needs and financial circumstances change - all the time knowing your money is backed by the full faith of the U.S. government.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/about.htm

But of course, these guys think this is how they can tap into their super sekrit established at birth accounts.

Let me list some entry points to get into the crazy:

Facebook group "All of us"--unlike other groups, this one is open.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/103207933631214/

I M Power Love Absolute:
http://i-uv.com/ --which appears to track the antics of one Heather Ann Tucci-Jarraf

Similar to i-uv is Terran Cognito: https://terrancognito.blogspot.no

"Intellectual Freedom Movement" with Harvey Dent (yeah, pseudonym)
"Harvey" posts new videos pretty frequently. A couple of days ago he criticized our very own Judge Anna on a video. His scam seems to be attempting to open accounts using Federal Reserve routing numbers and then getting outraged when the accounts are closed. He's all upset that "Wells Fraudo" (his words, not mine) wants the car back that he funded with his trickery.
Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzH_-l ... M_ShqDF18A

And for anyone reading here who thinks I am deluded, harshing your mellow and keeping you from getting your rightful money from the super sekrit Federal Reserve accounts, here's what the Federal Reserve Bank of New York has to say:
Video Scam Targeting Federal Reserve Bank Routing Numbers; Prosecution Possible
July 2017
Recently, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York became aware of a scheme promoted in online videos whereby individuals claim that U.S. citizens may make payments using fictitious accounts held at the Federal Reserve Banks. These fictitious accounts have been most commonly styled as secret accounts and/or Social Security trust accounts, and the individuals publishing the videos claim that substantial amounts are held within them for each U.S. citizen. To facilitate the scheme, the individuals publishing the videos have also offered bogus information on how other individuals may use online portals, such as bill-pay websites, to initiate payments from the fictitious accounts using Federal Reserve Bank routing numbers.
(More at the link)
https://www.newyorkfed.org/banking/frscams.html

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Notorial Dissent
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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:51 pm

Yep, pretty much, this one is really old. I remember this from when i was first working in banking, and it rears its ugly head about every 10 years. The classic is to use the Treasury direct routing info with the SSN. Now mind you the Treasury Direct is for incoming money only, but that never stopped a good scam or ever worked. They were also doing it with checks on closed accounts to pay bills for a while too, that one works real well to and is still a felony in some places.
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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by mmmirele » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:56 pm

One person I have not yet mentioned is Randall Keith Beane, who is currently a guest of the Knox County Jail in Knoxville, TN.
Screenshot 2017-07-23 09.30.42.png
Now you may be wondering why this guy is being held--well, there's that fugitive from justice thing, and the ominous words "FEDERAL DETAINER." So what did Randy (that's what these guys call him) do exactly?

What I think happened is this.

1) Randy Beane somehow got a large sum of money credited to his USAA account. I'm thinking he used this current scam of using a Federal Reserve routing number with a fake account number based off his Social Security number (the Treasury Direct Account or TDA scam).

2) Beane turned around and purchased a fully loaded, magnum size mobile home from Buddy Gregg Mobile Homes LLC for $493,110.68. The sale was entered into on Friday, July 7 and a wire was sent to Buddy Gregg Mobile Homes LLC from USAA.

(Documentation can be found here: http://i-uv.com/randy-we-are-with-you-w ... s-for-you/ This includes a copy of the warrant, which is not especially easy to look at, because it's upside down and in a form that doesn't allow for easy copying. Plus there's a ton of UCC financing statements and other sovereign citizen nonsense and bushwa and red fingerprints.)

3) Apparently, on July 10 (?), Randy Beane was arrested. Here's a video after the arrest, which appears to have taken place at Buddy Gregg Mobile Homes. (I live in a neighborhood with a half-dozen mobile home dealerships and this has all the hallmarks of a mobile home dealership parking lot.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUB4ScRFIhw

4) Here's Heather Ann Tucci-Jarraf saying over and over again, "This is Heather Ann Tucci-Jarraf, Randy Beane's lawyer, identify and state your authority to me immediately."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8Hvi1qj7wk

5) And here's Heather stating the obvious at the very beginning--the bank is requesting the cash back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOLaZ8Z_J_A

6) And, finally, there is a phone call recorded apparently today, which I have not listened to completely, which apparently has some info about Randy Beane's initial hearing, mixed up together with many heaping helpings of crazy about how everything has changed and been fixed and so on and so forth.

http://i-uv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017 ... access.m4a

Randy Beane's next hearing is on August 1. I think this one may be worth watching.
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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by gupwalla » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:02 pm

TreasuryDirect is just an eBond account. It's the 21st century equivalent of the banker's envelope I used to keep in my sock drawer with all those bonds Grandma put into my birthday and Christmas cards growing up. The only magic money going into the account is called "interest."

Keep a running list of those nutjobs though, because if talk of Guaranteed Basic Income continues they may represent a get-able audience.
In a wilderness of mirrors, what will the spider do beyond the circuit of the shuddering Bear in fractured atoms? -TS Eliot (somewhat modified)

All warfare is based on deception. - Sun Tzu

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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:05 pm

I don't know if Beane was following Heather's directions or if they hooked up after the fact, I think she instigated this though. He did the magic number thing, with USAA-which I didn't know, and then went and bought the RV. Unfortunately before he could get out of the lot with it, USAA and the feds caught up with him on bank fraud and popped him. He apparently also had outstanding traffic warrants to add to the joy. Heather has been pretending to be his lawyer, which is a good trick since I don't know if she is still licensed in her home state, and I'm sure she isn't in TN. I also didn't know the dollar amount, but with that amount he is well and truly into the serious bank fraud federal charges league.
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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by Grumpy Old Guy » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:20 pm

I found this history on our Randy Beane:

A 2014 arrest for speeding, no tags, no insurance and other sov-cit stupidity. The total raised is $437.

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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by NotaPerson » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:25 pm

mmmirele wrote: 6) And, finally, there is a phone call recorded apparently today, which I have not listened to completely, which apparently has some info about Randy Beane's initial hearing, mixed up together with many heaping helpings of crazy about how everything has changed and been fixed and so on and so forth.

http://i-uv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017 ... access.m4a
I just finished listening to the recording. A real chore, let me tell you.

This Heather is a real piece of work. She obviously spouts utter bullshit, yet she has a gift for talking as if she knows exactly what she is talking about. So I can see why a lot of people believe her (well, except for the obvious utter bullshit part).

Randy's legal problems apparently concern shenanigans in at least three states (CO, TN, and SC). But I'll be damned if I can piece the whole story together. Heather certainly doesn't explain it....all I've heard her say about Colorado is that the warrants there for Randy were "bogus." But if I understood her correctly, Randy is being moved to SC soon.

Her discussion of her interactions with Randy's lawyer in Knoxville (named Marcus) is pretty amusing. She hired him on Randy's behalf, and basically wanted him to do everything she says, including what to say to the prosecution and judge. Of course, he didn't go along with this, but in the end she was apparently happy with the outcome. She chalked it up to all the healing "energetics" being released in the courtroom. These are not your typical sovcits....they are deep, way deep, into the new age energy nonsense.

Also too, "non-terrestrial beings."

But the main reason I listened to the call was to hear the really big news (discussed in the second hour) about the TDAs. Apparently, there will be an official government announcement early this week that we have all been granted "unfettered access" to the millions in our accounts. Heather was in DC at the end of this past week, talking to people connected to the White House. She was told that the "daughter of a very important man" has confirmed what is happening. :lol:

So it should be a very interesting week.
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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by NotaPerson » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:53 pm

Someone posted this a couple of hour ago in the ACH Payments Facebook group...
Donaldconfirmsit.JPG
https://www.facebook.com/groups/827467777424016/ (you have to join the group to see posts)

Not everyone is falling for it. But some are....
Randall Burks He actually answered you and admitted that we will soon have access to our accounts. That's what matters. Now we see why a financier was hired as the communications director for the Trump administration. "How do we explain to the people that we have been stealing and hoarding their money since 1913?"
Debi Butler Mersch He wants to drain the swamp, what better way than put more power in the hands of the people and away from the corruption.
Oh my god, the stupidity. :smoking:
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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by NotaPerson » Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:09 pm

And in the All Of Us Facebook, I see that Mr. Toro has opened up a potentially nasty can of worms for himself...
Paul.JPG

But Mr. Messer is thinking ahead about the real consequences for America....
thinking ahead.JPG
Yesterday in one of these groups (forget which one) someone posted a story about how he had walked into his bank with his "authenticated birth certificate" and other documents, trying to deposit a large sum of cash from his TDA. Some bank employees spent a considerable amount of time examining his documents and discussing them behind closed doors so that this idiot couldn't hear them. They finally came out and told him that the bank manager would have to handle a transaction such as this, and so he should come back on Monday. I do hope law enforcement is called as soon as he arrives.

I really, really want to start hearing about some arrests. And it needs media coverage. This shit is getting out of hand.
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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by maydijo » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:34 pm

I've never understood how this works: When you're issued with a SSN, the federal government, which is trillions of dollars in debt, sets up a super-top-secret bank account with anywhere from tens of thousands to tens of millions of dollars in it. This somehow means that you are now a slave who is sold to to a corporation at birth. The only way this makes even a teeny little bit of sense is if you believe that all companies are actually owned by the government, and the government pays the corporations your salary. But even if you could somehow create a mind-pretzel that would believe that (which is a pretty tough proposition, considering the way businesses work - shutting down, firing people, etc. whether the government likes it or not) I'm still very unclear on how, exactly, the existence of this account turns you into a super-top-secret bank account turns you into a slave. You still get paid for your work; you still have the choice of where you are going to work or if you are going to work; where is the slavery in any of that? Also, considering the way the government raids social security etc. when there is a budget short-fall, we are supposed to believe that somehow these super-top-secret bank accounts are completely off-limits?

Now granted, I don't have John P Capitalist's level of money-smarts. But this makes no sense to me.

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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by mmmirele » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:37 pm

Because I had nothing better to do this afternoon, I listened to this Heather Ann Tucci-Jarraf (HATJ) production, which appears to have been done since Thursday, July 20. I stopped listening at 1:25 in because they were going into this airy-fairy BS about how everyone's accounts were now available.

http://i-uv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017 ... access.m4a

However, the first hour or so is about Randy Beane. What Randy had done was watch a "Harvey Dent" video and then he followed up with HATJ and let her know he was going to test this "TDA" thing, presumably with the real Federal Reserve routing numbers and whatever account numbers he dreamed up. In the meantime, HATJ was working on her "factualized trust" (more nonsense, obviously). He opened up some large-dollar CDs ($27 million of them!) at USAA, then turned around and used a couple of those CDs for the wire to "pay" for the RV. The sale was on Friday, July 7. Apparently Randy didn't take the RV then "because there was something wrong with the air conditioning." Well, Randy showed up on July 11 at the RV dealership with two "friends," Alex and Valerie to pick up the RV. That did not happen and Randy was hauled off to jail.

Since HATJ, Alex and Valerie are all two tacos short of a combination plate, there's no way to tell if anything they said was accurate as to why Randy was taken in. Initially (according to them) it was on a bogus Colorado warrant, then it was a warrant out of South Carolina. HATJ told Randy not to sign any extradition paperwork, so he went before the judge early last week. HATJ flew in from Houston and hired a local attorney to pass notes to Randy. She was basically telling him what to do, and, of course, he was not obeying her because she's two sandwiches short of a picnic. Ultimately, Randy agreed to the extradition and apparently signed the paperwork, and the county in SC that wants him can pick him up by August 1. You can listen to the recording to get an idea of how put out HATJ is since she is doing all of this for us, even including the local DAs (apparently Attorneys General in TN?). And of course, there were aliens involved in this hour.

Documentation, such as it is, and various rants here: http://i-uv.com/randy-we-are-with-you-w ... s-for-you/

Now, this is the deal: Even though Randy Beane is in jail, HATJ still considers him to be successful. How? Because Randy Beane proved the TDAs existed by opening the CDs and funding them via the Federal Reserve routing number and fake account numbers. Heather claims because this was initially successful, and it looks like the CDs were funded, the sekrit accounts set up at your birth with your birth certificate actually exist. So Randy Beane was successful, even though he's currently cooling his heels in the Knox County Jail in Tennessee.

As I said, after the first hour, then HATJ went into some airy-fairy nonsense about how everything was being liberated and we were all going to have access to our TDAs and seriously, it was worse than trying to eat a completely non-nutritious Peep. So I gave up.

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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by rossgw » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:39 pm

NotaPerson wrote:This Heather is a real piece of work. She obviously spouts utter bullshit, yet she has a gift for talking as if she knows exactly what she is talking about. So I can see why a lot of people believe her (well, except for the obvious utter bullshit part).
She was one of the main instigators of the OPPT con....

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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by mmmirele » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:43 pm

rossgw wrote:
NotaPerson wrote:This Heather is a real piece of work. She obviously spouts utter bullshit, yet she has a gift for talking as if she knows exactly what she is talking about. So I can see why a lot of people believe her (well, except for the obvious utter bullshit part).
She was one of the main instigators of the OPPT con....
Yup, and in fact it looks like she's using the same paperwork from OPPT here. If you go to that i-uv.com link I put in above, you'll see a number of UCC financial statements filed in 2012 for the OPPT, complete with red fingerprints and all!

I guess these are HATJ's version of "powahful papahs" (John Darash/Vidurek).

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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:12 pm

Dear old Heather is a whole box of fries short of a Happy Meal. She got all new agey unconscious when she stole the OPPT stuff and I think she has been going further down the rabbit hole ever since.
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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by Techno Luddite » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:26 pm

How in the world is this HATJ not in the funny farm somewhere?

Favorite metaphor from this thread is "two tacos short of a combination plate" :point:

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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:15 am

maydijo wrote:I've never understood how this works: When you're issued with a SSN, the federal government, which is trillions of dollars in debt, sets up a super-top-secret bank account with anywhere from tens of thousands to tens of millions of dollars in it. This somehow means that you are now a slave who is sold to to a corporation at birth. The only way this makes even a teeny little bit of sense is if you believe that all companies are actually owned by the government, and the government pays the corporations your salary. But even if you could somehow create a mind-pretzel that would believe that (which is a pretty tough proposition, considering the way businesses work - shutting down, firing people, etc. whether the government likes it or not) I'm still very unclear on how, exactly, the existence of this account turns you into a super-top-secret bank account turns you into a slave. You still get paid for your work; you still have the choice of where you are going to work or if you are going to work; where is the slavery in any of that? Also, considering the way the government raids social security etc. when there is a budget short-fall, we are supposed to believe that somehow these super-top-secret bank accounts are completely off-limits?

Now granted, I don't have John P Capitalist's level of money-smarts. But this makes no sense to me.
Thank you for the shout-out. Unsurprisingly, understanding the roots of this theory requires absolutely zero understanding of high finance, and can be explained solely by the psychology of incompetence and stupidity.

It's normal human nature to "demonize the enemy." If you are a perennial loser in life, explaining the endless sequence of failures and disappointments in your life is far more comfortable when you avoid looking at the bad choices you've made. It's much more comfortable to blame someone else. And in order to blame someone else without admitting your own incompetence, you have to make the enemy much more powerful than you are.

So people who believe in conspiracy theories typically believe that their destiny is utterly controlled by shadowy forces with superpowers that are not exhibited by normal mortals. Some astonishing percentage of people in the Middle East believe that Jews can fly like Superman, for instance. So when you are one of life's losers, you don't blame your lack of skills or the economically disadvantaged area where you live and that you refuse to leave. You blame some secret conspiracy to keep a staggering amount of money away from you where no one can get at it.

The reality of economic life is generally harsh and unforgiving when you are an ill-trained participant in an unskilled labor market in a geographically undesirable part of the country. I can only imagine that as desperation sets in later in life of unending futility, people see wealth and easy money on TV, and are willing to go to extremes in order to try to get "their share."

Against that backdrop, it's easy for either deranged or dishonest people to come in and put forth a scam such as the Treasury Direct Account fraud.

It is not clear to me that people promoting this fraud actually understand the payment system and the degree of trust by which it operates, where payments are often credited immediately though they remain contingent on final availability of funds from the source institution. In some cases, the hucksters will just show a statement showing that the loan was paid off, dated a day after the "payment" was made, before the provisional payment was inevitably reversed.

I love how the suckers who believe in this nonsense think that the reversal of a payment means that the bank is somehow breaking the law. I'm sure that all of those account holder agreements that banks enclose every so often with your bills, the ones nobody reads, spells out in excruciating detail how payments are provisional until an irrevocable final transfer of funds takes place. Of course, the ignorant won't understand what that means even if you tried to explain it to them.

In other circumstances, fraudsters like Randy Beane get temporarily lucky and are able to kite a payment as he did in buying this RV. Frankly, I'm surprised that USAA would have allowed a wire transfer out of his account with a transaction so far out of what must have been the normal pattern of account activity. Beane got busted only because the dealer wouldn't let him take the vehicle immediately. If you have ever wondered why there always seems to be a wait of a few days between signing a deal to sell you a car and allowing you to pick up the vehicle, now you know why.

The avoidance of responsibility for one's own life can go to pretty significant extremes. If you look at the Heather Tucci-Jarraf site, she explains Beane's arrest as a way for the government to silence him as a whistleblower with secret inside information about all sorts of unlikely military conspiracies. Given that the audience for her nonsense is already conditioned to believe almost anything, some percentage will swallow it completely.

Incidentally, one thing that Wall Street types are good at is sniffing out a lot of details about money in various places in the world. We're not perfect -- we do get stuff wrong a fair percentage of the time, but we win more than we lose. Knowing the capabilities of my colleagues, it is absolutely impossible that we would not know of secret reserves of trillions of dollars of cash sitting in secret accounts. "Wall Street secrecy" is an oxymoron up there with "military intelligence" or "DMV customer service."

Even if the majority of the Wall Street crowd was clueless, someone would have talked to someone or attempted to hire someone or had otherwise interacted with someone in Treasury that knew about such an immense amount of money. And once someone starts trading on it, others would see unusual trades and would try to figure out what was going on, and the secret would eventually get out.

So even if everyday common sense didn't cause you to dismiss the bizarre theories of secret Treasury cash out of hand, the fact that, in the decades since these accounts were allegedly created (typically imagined starting when FDR "confiscated" gold in 1933), not one single person on Wall Street had discovered their existence and managed to make a fortune trading on that stunning revelation, ought to be sufficient proof that this is nonsense.

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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by Notorial Dissent » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:03 am

In painfully excruciating detail in fact, and also pointed out umpty bazillion times that all non-cash transactions regardless of the source are ONLY provisional until a certain time period has passed, and even then in certain cases they aren't absolute.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by neeneko » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:22 am

maydijo wrote:The only way this makes even a teeny little bit of sense is if you believe that all companies are actually owned by the government, and the government pays the corporations your salary.
One of the ideas within the SovCit mythology is that the origin of all corporate charters is the Catholic Church, so all states and corporations derive their existence from and thus take orders from the Pope. So they do see the whole mess as one entity, sorta.

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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by neeneko » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:29 am

JohnPCapitalist wrote: So even if everyday common sense didn't cause you to dismiss the bizarre theories of secret Treasury cash out of hand, the fact that, in the decades since these accounts were allegedly created (typically imagined starting when FDR "confiscated" gold in 1933), not one single person on Wall Street had discovered their existence and managed to make a fortune trading on that stunning revelation, ought to be sufficient proof that this is nonsense.
Hrm. I thought part of their framework was that investors (scary foreign ones at least) were making a fortune trading them. I gather they are supposed to act a bit like rai stones, traders are not dipping into them directly but instead trading them around as instruments, betting on future earnings or something.

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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by Northland10 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:52 am

Grumpy Old Guy wrote:I found this history on our Randy Beane:

A 2014 arrest for speeding, no tags, no insurance and other sov-cit stupidity. The total raised is $437.
March 2015 in North Carolina
March 18

* Randall Keith Beane, 47, 7122 Gravel Hill Road, Denton, guilty of misdemeanor probation violation, continue on probation, probation extended 12 months from 18 March 2015.

http://www.courier-tribune.com/news/cou ... arch-13-25
I don't know the reason for his probation or the details of the violation.
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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by Gregg » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:00 am

Oh my, Heather Ann Tucci-Jarraf...that opens up a great big can of crazy.

Heather was the guiding force behind the OPPT, the Magic Sex Bus US Tour, the Great Morocco Free Energy Perpetual Motion Machine Drug Orgy and Hope Girl's wonderful world travel fundraising scam. If you have a few hours to kill, a big bowl of popcorn and good keyboard protection, Quatloos has 70 plus pages of this crew of crazy

http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtop ... f=6&t=9038


Get a legal pad to keep a good cross reference as you go, it has more sub plots and side shows than 50 spinoff soap operas.
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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by NotaPerson » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:46 am

Barney figured out a great way to get himself into hot water...
barney.JPG
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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by Foggy » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:53 am

I vote that April the Giraffe is way smarter than Heather the Jarraf. :mrgreen:
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Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by Suranis » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:14 am

Reading JohnPCapitalist's post there reminded me of a thought thats been banging around my head for a while. I think the reason people go fr this is that they don't understand how the stock market works. Frankly I don't fully understand it either so I cant blame them. What they see is people sitting at terminals making scad loads of money for apparently doing fuck all. Its like magic. Money goes in, and somehow more money comes out.

So, when someone says that the governments are using accounts in your name to trade on a secret stock market to make money, it sounds as plausible as dipshits like Martin Sherelli somehow being a millionaire from stock market trading. Why wouldn't governments be doing it if it was as easy as that, and thats the way that stock markets work. So then, dazzle them with a bit of faux brilliance and they are yours. And, of course, if you have no hope, then a 0.0001% chance that this is legit is better than zero.
"I think its pretty troubling when a backyard decoration comes out swinging harder against Nazis than the President of the United States." - Stephen Colbert

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JohnPCapitalist
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Occupation: Investment management in the financial industry. Deep knowledge of stocks, tech and economics.

Re: Federal Reserve Shenanigans 2017

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:34 am

neeneko wrote:
JohnPCapitalist wrote: So even if everyday common sense didn't cause you to dismiss the bizarre theories of secret Treasury cash out of hand, the fact that, in the decades since these accounts were allegedly created (typically imagined starting when FDR "confiscated" gold in 1933), not one single person on Wall Street had discovered their existence and managed to make a fortune trading on that stunning revelation, ought to be sufficient proof that this is nonsense.
Hrm. I thought part of their framework was that investors (scary foreign ones at least) were making a fortune trading them. I gather they are supposed to act a bit like rai stones, traders are not dipping into them directly but instead trading them around as instruments, betting on future earnings or something.
There are financial instruments where you can trade the interest on a financial instrument separately from the instrument itself. Perhaps the best-known example is "Treasury STRIPS," which are documented here: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/treasurystrips.asp. I'm a stock guy, not a bond guy so I have very little understanding of this stuff beyond what I needed to know to pass SEC licensing exams decades ago.

On the stock side, the idea you're expressing is similar to trading a stock option, which is a way of profiting from the change in value of a stock without actually owning the stock itself. Example: For example, Microsoft stock closed Friday at around $75. You could buy an option for, say, $3, that would allow you to buy shares of Microsoft at $85 in the next 6 months. If Microsoft stock closes above $85 by the time the option expires, then you essentially pocket the amount by which the stock closed above $85.

So let's say that Microsoft closed at $92 when the option expired. You paid $3 and get back $7 (you don't get the $3 cost of the option back, so your net profit is $4). So you made 33% on the trade for six months work. If you had bought the stock, you would have paid $75 for the stock and sold for the same $92 six months later, you would earned $17 per share, which is a 25% gain, not bad for 6 months, but materially less than the 33% you would have made if you played the option market, and you would have tied up a lot more money during that time, which would carry some unspecified opportunity cost. If the stock closed at $93 instead of $92, you would have made $5 instead of $4, giving you a 66% return instead of 33%. And so forth. If you really blow out the strike price on an option trade, the profits on a trade can become ludicrous.

Options are high-risk, however, because you lose all the money you paid for the option if the payoff is not reached -- in other words, if you paid $3 to buy an option to buy Microsoft at $85 six months hence, but the stock closed at $82 when the option expired, you lose every nickel of your $3 and get nothing in return.

The discussion about whether options are good for the market is long and complex; the net of it is that they are. By the way, options are not created out of nothing like some of these poots think all that government cash was... the person who first sells an option "covers" it by owning a share of the underlying stock.

It's amusing that the whack jobs think that foreigners are trading these nonexistent options... the domestic securities business is at the smartest and fiercest of any in the world, so if these things existed, the lion's share of trading on them would be conducted right here in New York, not at unspecified foreign financial centers. Of course, these shadowy "foreign investors" are just code for "international bankers" and everybody knows exactly which tribe of people that refers to.

Edited to add: So how much would the market for trading on interest rates around this pile of invisible money be worth? Assume $10 million in these invisible government bank accounts for each of 320 million Americans. You're looking at $3,200 trillion dollars -- an amount that dwarfs the current US "M2" money supply of around $14 trillion. Interest income on that puddle of money at the current 52-week T-bill interest rate of 1.20% would be $38.4 trillion per year, an amount roughly double the size of the US GDP and relatively similar in magnitude to the total market value of all US publicly traded stocks. It's also far greater than the US national debt, so the interest on the secret Treasury money could have paid off the entire debt in less than a year, which would be a good idea.

The thought that this pile of money could be hidden successfully from Wall Street is delusional. And this shows typical ludicrous poot math at work.

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