SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans (HATJ & RKB)

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Mikedunford
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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2051

Post by Mikedunford »

BackRoom_Knox wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:27 pm Oh I just saw the title!! Not trying to thread jack.....
please erase my posts or move them or let me know what to do to fix.

Sorry all. I thought I was responding to a thread about this trial.

Ill go to another thread.
No, I think this is the thread for this trial. I don't think we set up a separate one.


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NotaPerson
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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2052

Post by NotaPerson »

BackRoom_Knox wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:24 pm Question, is being gullable intent?
If you were to look at the discussion here over the last couple of days, some of us have wondered about this too.


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2053

Post by boots »

It depends on how you define intent, what "level" of intent is required for a conviction, and what evidence is presented by the prosecution (and by the defense, but I suspect the defense in this case isn't going to present much which useful to the trier of fact).

If you define "intent" as requiring both specific intent to perform an illegal act, and knowledge and understanding that it is illegal, that is a very high burden and you would, under that standard, likely conclude the gullible can't commit a crime. Almost any crime. But a legal system, or its society, could not function under that high of a standard for large dollar theft crimes and frauds. It would give anyone who looked loony enough an easy out. And it would be a sort of cheap version of an insanity defense, of which it is my understanding, she did not put on.

If the statute defines the level as merely being "intentional" as in intending the normal and usual effects of one's actions, that is a whole different story. And you are now all of the sudden talking about the real world, in terms of the way criminal statutes are written and interpreted. I haven't read this particular statute and researched the caselaw interpreting it, but it wouldn't surprise me if this is roughly the level of intent that would be involved.

And, as many have pointed out upthread, there are many interesting facts which show that Randy and HATJ either knew what they were doing was fraudulent or were willfully blinded by their false ideology, which again, under a real world interpretation of a real world legal standard, isn't going to be a defense.

But ultimately, it's in the eye of the beholder, the trier of fact and the judge. I just don't think that 12 normal, sentient beings are going to take kindly to the idea that Randy and Heather get free bazillions for a fancy RV because "blah blah blah".


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2054

Post by NotaPerson »

Mikedunford wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:28 pm Let's take Amazon as an example. Amazon's risk management people know that there is a chance that they will lose some money to fraud if they ship books before the ACH process is complete and their receipt of the funds is confirmed.
Amazon is a great example, because from what I observed, quite a few people successfully received shipments from Amazon by linking to their "secret Fed account."

I imagine most of these folks no longer have Amazon accounts, but I don't know.


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2055

Post by Gregg »

BackRoom_Knox wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:12 pm Many of you are discussing that Federal Reserve has no security Issues.

The Federal Reserve Senior Vice President and Chief Investigator said the incidents are still occurring as of his testimony, under oath, this past Friday.

He admitted the system was built with speed first, not security.

He said this happened 5 years ago as well.

I heard it out of the horses mouth.

What happens next time when it is millions of computer bots accessing the systems....
and your check is not deposited in your accounts, you are not able to get gas, no trucks can deliver food to the market, because all federal reserve banks cut off the ACH system to your banks and others?

Worst case scenario but it's possible, as Mr. Beane had his hands on a 90 truck and an RV.

You all need to get a hold of the transcripts and you will see for yourself.

So how am I supposed to get on board with everything else you say? I am stating facts. You are going for opinion.

P.S. The two day hold is now 1 day ......remember speed of moving massive amounts of cash, not security.
You seriously don't understand what you have heard. Not a dime has gotten out of a Federal Reserve Bank, when these transactions hit the Fed, THAT is when they fail and the transaction bounces exactly as a paper check written on a fraudulent account would. Because that is what is happening, an electronic "check" , ACH, is being entered and the merchants accept them. These merchants don't instantly deposit them, they do so in batches, some daily, some every hour but they have 48 hours to do it. Then, their bank credits their account and sends these "checks" along to the customer's bank, which again, doesn't happen instantly. The customer's bank doesn't even accept them all at once, they process them in batches also and that does happen at least once every business day, usually more often than that, but you get the drift. This, and not before, is when these phony account numbers hit the Federal Reserve Bank, and I challenge you to provide one single example of one of these fake ACH transactions working beyond this step.

You wanna know about how the Federal Reserve Banks work on a transactional level, I'll be happy to explain it, at length. I used to work for a Federal Reserve Bank, and I have a PhD, MBA and BAS in Economics. I work on the China time zone so I'd be happy to call you before the court convenes in the morning, just send me a PM.

Also, before you go any further, the OPPT threads at Quatloos.com are pretty much required reading to have the proper background to objectively cover this story. Really, you're getting all your info from inside the compound right now.


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2056

Post by Mikedunford »

BackRoom_Knox wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:24 pm Question, is being gullable intent?
The exact intent required depends on the exact charge. I haven't looked at the indictment for a while, so I don't know the precise level for the counts in this trial offhand. I will say that, in general, "I really believed that everyone in the US is a secret millionaire" isn't going to negate intent.
I believe Heather will be let off scott free, and if not scott free probation....
If she's convicted, it's virtually certain that she'll do time. I worked out how much is likely (if I read the sentencing guidelines correctly) somewhere in this thread, but I think the minimum is a few years.


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2057

Post by nancydrew »

BackRoom_Knox wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:24 pm Thank you @gilmdropper. I went in open arms as well. They admitted they were a lil lu lu and I said they were the same. I too would like to know the truth.

There are hols in the story, as I have written about. So its not a perfect story. I want to give my opinion on guilty or innocent but it wont be accurate till its all over.

There are rebuttal witnesses now.

Question, is being gullable intent?

I believe Heather will be let off scott free, and if not scott free probation....

Mr. Beane is "fodder" and he has other issues....we may find out more tomorrow.... so I'm not sure what would happen to him.....

I will say he is more likely to be convicted.... but the fed reserve VP said good people got some money out.....

In a criminal case, doubt means innocent in a criminal trial.

But it can go either way in my opinion.... and you know opinions....I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.
Are people still trying it? Absolutely! Don’t get ACH transactions mixed with up with checks. Wires, checks, and ACH transactions have different guidelines. Checks are not cleared in one day. Transactions processed thru ACH, are being batched and processed several times a day. This was only step two of a 3 step process. Will there be problems with step 3? Maybe?! Probably. I like to think of these individuals that attempted this, as free beta testers for the FRB. You gotta remember this scam is almost 40 year old scam pioneered by Roger Elvick. (Who by the way spent most of his adulthood in one Federal prison or another) The scam rears it’s ugly head every so often with a new set of participants and a slight twist. I think that why it gained so much attention this time is due to the far reach of YouTube and the current gurus found s new set of marks. They are usually those undereducated, gullible, naive and desperate to fix their financial woes.

YouTube has been extremely lax in shutting these videos down and canceling channels. All sorts of warnings by the FBI, the FRB, FTC and various utility companies. It was covered in the Detroit Free Press picked up by USA Today. Covered by other small papers. Very few individuals got their bills paid, and these institutions have failed to prosecute these individuals, because no one suffered a loss. They preferred to let the businesses eke out their own justice with fees, late charges, closing accounts, turning over for collections, suing.


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2058

Post by Mikedunford »

boots wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:33 pm And, as many have pointed out upthread, there are many interesting facts which show that Randy and HATJ either knew what they were doing was fraudulent or were willfully blinded by their false ideology, which again, under a real world interpretation of a real world legal standard, isn't going to be a defense.
There should be a jury instruction that covers deliberate ignorance. If it's given, the jury will be told that they can conclude that the defendants acted knowingly if they knew that there was a high probability that the money wasn't really theirs and deliberately avoided learning the truth. Given just the evidence that Randy tried to fund a bunch of CDs, but only was successful with two, that should be enough to show that there was a high probability. And knowingly is the highest bar for intent - I'm not sure if it applies to the charges.


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2059

Post by nancydrew »

NotaPerson wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:40 pm
Mikedunford wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:28 pm Let's take Amazon as an example. Amazon's risk management people know that there is a chance that they will lose some money to fraud if they ship books before the ACH process is complete and their receipt of the funds is confirmed.
Amazon is a great example, because from what I observed, quite a few people successfully received shipments from Amazon by linking to their "secret Fed account."

I imagine most of these folks no longer have Amazon accounts, but I don't know.
I actually wrote a letter to Jeff Bezo’s and got referred to one of the Executive VP. I did get a response, and for awhike was corresponding with him on a regular basis. I also was in touch with a Senior VP from First Data. They are a large processor of ACH transactions, as well one of their subsidiaries is Telecheck. We had several nice phone conversations, (especially since one of their customers is Amazon).

Amazon didn’t lose any money, because they have a contract with First Data. If a transaction does not go through, First Data makes Amazon whole, they in turn transfer it to another subsidiary which is a collection agency owned by First Data.


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2060

Post by nancydrew »

Mikedunford wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:52 pm
boots wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:33 pm And, as many have pointed out upthread, there are many interesting facts which show that Randy and HATJ either knew what they were doing was fraudulent or were willfully blinded by their false ideology, which again, under a real world interpretation of a real world legal standard, isn't going to be a defense.
There should be a jury instruction that covers deliberate ignorance. If it's given, the jury will be told that they can conclude that the defendants acted knowingly if they knew that there was a high probability that the money wasn't really theirs and deliberately avoided learning the truth. Given just the evidence that Randy tried to fund a bunch of CDs, but only was successful with two, that should be enough to show that there was a high probability. And knowingly is the highest bar for intent - I'm not sure if it applies to the charges.
Don’t forget their timing in my opinion was intent. They started after 2 on a Thurs., so they would have all day on Fri. plus the weekend.


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2061

Post by nancydrew »

Gregg wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:44 pm
BackRoom_Knox wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:12 pm Many of you are discussing that Federal Reserve has no security Issues.

The Federal Reserve Senior Vice President and Chief Investigator said the incidents are still occurring as of his testimony, under oath, this past Friday.

He admitted the system was built with speed first, not security.

He said this happened 5 years ago as well.

I heard it out of the horses mouth.

What happens next time when it is millions of computer bots accessing the systems....
and your check is not deposited in your accounts, you are not able to get gas, no trucks can deliver food to the market, because all federal reserve banks cut off the ACH system to your banks and others?

Worst case scenario but it's possible, as Mr. Beane had his hands on a 90 truck and an RV.

You all need to get a hold of the transcripts and you will see for yourself.

So how am I supposed to get on board with everything else you say? I am stating facts. You are going for opinion.

P.S. The two day hold is now 1 day ......remember speed of moving massive amounts of cash, not security.
You seriously don't understand what you have heard. Not a dime has gotten out of a Federal Reserve Bank, when these transactions hit the Fed, THAT is when they fail and the transaction bounces exactly as a paper check written on a fraudulent account would. Because that is what is happening, an electronic "check" , ACH, is being entered and the merchants accept them. These merchants don't instantly deposit them, they do so in batches, some daily, some every hour but they have 48 hours to do it. Then, their bank credits their account and sends these "checks" along to the customer's bank, which again, doesn't happen instantly. The customer's bank doesn't even accept them all at once, they process them in batches also and that does happen at least once every business day, usually more often than that, but you get the drift. This, and not before, is when these phony account numbers hit the Federal Reserve Bank, and I challenge you to provide one single example of one of these fake ACH transactions working beyond this step.

You wanna know about how the Federal Reserve Banks work on a transactional level, I'll be happy to explain it, at length. I used to work for a Federal Reserve Bank, and I have a PhD, MBA and BAS in Economics. I work on the China time zone so I'd be happy to call you before the court convenes in the morning, just send me a PM.

Also, before you go any further, the OPPT threads at Quatloos.com are pretty much required reading to have the proper background to objectively cover this story. Really, you're getting all your info from inside the compound right now.
Yea Gregg! You tell him. It frustrates me to no end, that these individuals have no idea about their own checking account, much less all the hidden behind the scenes steps that takes place between a transaction being posted to an individual’s accounts, till the vender actually has said money for that payment in their own banking account.


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2062

Post by Somerset »

Gregg wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:44 pm
You wanna know about how the Federal Reserve Banks work on a transactional level, I'll be happy to explain it, at length. I used to work for a Federal Reserve Bank, and I have a PhD, MBA and BAS in Economics. I work on the China time zone so I'd be happy to call you before the court convenes in the morning, just send me a PM.
Off Topic

I wondered why you were posting in the afternoons here. I thought maybe you were traveling in Asia


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2063

Post by Gregg »

Randy attempted to fund $30.5 million in jumbo CD purchases, he was able to cash out 2 of them for $1.5 million. I'm guessing he had maybe 25 or 30 transactions that didn't go through. You think he would wonder why, don't you?


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2064

Post by Gregg »

Somerset wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:09 am
Gregg wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:44 pm
You wanna know about how the Federal Reserve Banks work on a transactional level, I'll be happy to explain it, at length. I used to work for a Federal Reserve Bank, and I have a PhD, MBA and BAS in Economics. I work on the China time zone so I'd be happy to call you before the court convenes in the morning, just send me a PM.
Off Topic

I wondered why you were posting in the afternoons here. I thought maybe you were traveling in Asia
I'm physically in Cincinnati. I'm usually here, Detroit or my second home in Gettysburg, but a lot of my work is more convenient if I'm working at the same time as suppliers in China, so I typically work on their schedule.


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2065

Post by mmmirele »

JohnPCapitalist wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:38 pm
I'm in touch with a prominent scholar of religion who is well-known for his study of cults, and he's devoting a significant amount of time studying the Sovereign Citizen movement and related political groups. I'm hoping to get an interview done with him in the next couple weeks, and will post the SovCit relevant stuff here.
Stephen Kent? Remember, in Canada, they're afflicted with "Freemen on the Land."


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2066

Post by JohnPCapitalist »

mmmirele wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:16 am
JohnPCapitalist wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:38 pm
I'm in touch with a prominent scholar of religion who is well-known for his study of cults, and he's devoting a significant amount of time studying the Sovereign Citizen movement and related political groups. I'm hoping to get an interview done with him in the next couple weeks, and will post the SovCit relevant stuff here.
Stephen Kent? Remember, in Canada, they're afflicted with "Freemen on the Land."
A great guess. And of course, if anybody here would guess correctly, it would be you. After all, we were both at the legendary "SP party" a few years ago where Dr. Kent also put in an appearance. I'm just waiting on his schedule and trying to find someone who speaks Canadian to help with translation of his remarks into English.


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2067

Post by anotherparadox »

NotaPerson wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:32 pm
BackRoom_Knox wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:24 pm Question, is being gullable intent?
If you were to look at the discussion here over the last couple of days, some of us have wondered about this too.
I posted up thread an article about a woman that was convicted of getting large IRS refunds using the 1099 OID scam. She was indeed gullible but she was also found guilty. Gullible isn't a defense just as not knowing the law isn't a defense.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreil ... d76ed95e66


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2068

Post by ssmith »

Day 6 wrap up w/the three stooges (their words, not mine):



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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2069

Post by ssmith »

Sheila seems to be on the verge of a serious mental breakdown:



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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2070

Post by TheNewSaint »

@BackroomKnox Welcome. Glad you stopped by. To quickly give you two more pieces of information relevant to your story:

1. Search this thread for "Alabama Power." There's some local news coverage from last summer of many, many AP customers trying to pay their bills with this method. That was at the height of "ACH mania", before steps were taken to prevent these kinds of transfers.

2. Search this thread for "spreadsheet." I-uv.com maintains a spreadsheet of its readers' attempts to access their own "secret accounts", in what struck me as an effort to crowdsource the magic formula. It makes interesting reading to say the least. If you can't find it, PM me and I can probably send you an old version.

Partway through that list, people start getting a new rejection, something like "R34 denied by regulator." I believe that was the major step taken to put a stop to abusive use of the system. Which you are right to be concerned about.

And do read everything about Heather on Quatloos, especially the older thread about the "water powered sex bus." That'll give you some insight into Heather's grifting history.

I'd provide links but i only have a couple minutes to type this on my phone. Best wishes.


This bramble need not be traversed.
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realist
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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2071

Post by realist »

BackRoom_Knox wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:27 pm Oh I just saw the title!! Not trying to thread jack.....
please erase my posts or move them or let me know what to do to fix.

Sorry all. I thought I was responding to a thread about this trial.

Ill go to another thread.
You're in the correct thread.

check your Private Messages


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2072

Post by Gregg »

BackRoomKnox,
Tucci-Jarraf stated that Karl Lagenstein, AIIV offered her 1 billion dollars to remove herself from this case or cleanup action.
Have you ever heard of this website that will look up people, supposed international experts, called google.com ?

Karl Lagenstein is currently hiding in Panama, for the great beaches and the convenience of no extradition. He stole I think about $10 million a few years back in Switzerland, a country mush less hospitable to big time bank thieves. http://olehsokhan.com/paulshort/site/le ... angenstein

Heather has also claimed, for 5 years, that she is in charge of the "foreclosed" assets of every nation and corporation in the planet, are you giving her the benefit of the doubt on that? Have you read some of the batshit crazy she has filed in just this case?

Did you see the bill Heather filed, and expects to be paid $33 Quintillion dollars in Duly Registered, secured and noticed MONEY OF THE UNITED STATES pre-1933 gold and silver?

Do you know about the Magic Water Powered Majik Sex Bus Tour? (this lot does have a history with recreational vehicles.) I mean, really, anyone who can spend an hour or so looking into the garbage Heather and her acolytes at Planet Moonbeam spout, and doesn't conclude that this is a crowd that has drums of cyanide flavored Kool Aid in their future is trying to have a big glass themselves. (word of warning, Cyanide is bright blue, so if the kool aid looks like it might be smurf flavored, let a few others go in front of you and see how they keep it down. Its a terrible, painful way to die)


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2073

Post by NotaPerson »

Gregg wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:27 am
Karl Lagenstein is currently hiding in Panama, for the great beaches and the convenience of no extradition. He stole I think about $10 million a few years back in Switzerland, a country mush less hospitable to big time bank thieves. http://olehsokhan.com/paulshort/site/le ... angenstein
BackRoomKnox, by clicking on a link below the story Gregg pointed you to, I found this:
Death Threats? Really?
By Paul Short on 20/03/2013
Since publishing my article on OPPT and having that article picked up by a few popular alternative media sites, I have received several death threats through emails sent using the contact form on this site.

At least one of my friends who shared links to the article on social media sites has been getting harrassed pretty violently as well.....
Those threats were from followers of Heather and/or Lagenstein.

Not that I got any threats myself, but now you better understand why I deleted my comments on your Facebook page a little while after I posted them. Life is too short to put up with death threats, especially over something so friggin' bonkers.


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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2074

Post by anotherparadox »

ssmith wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:08 am Day 6 wrap up w/the three stooges (their words, not mine):

In some ways, these videos are a hoot. What is better are some of the comments. I found this one particullarly funny.
Screenshot 2018-01-31 09.12.55.png
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Re: SovCit Financial Frauds & Related Shenanigans

#2075

Post by Foggy »

My dad used to say, $33 quintillion here, $33 quintillion there, pretty soon you're talking about real money!

Welcome, BackRoom_Knox. No such thing as a free lunch. Between us and Quatloos, you can learn all the information you need about these scams and the scammers who run them. We have absolutely no connection with Quatloos except for a common interest in this stuff (and several of us are members there too).

When the transcripts are available, I can promise we'll look at the testimony of the Federal Reserve guy and give you a free and factual analysis.


I hope y'all are still wearing your seat belts!
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