Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

BruceHollandRogers
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1201

Post by BruceHollandRogers » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:34 pm

Finally, I'm still wondering what the status of counterfeits might be for Zim dollars.

I'm seeing fakes listed on Ebay, sometimes identified as "novelty" Zim dollars, which is not as explicit as Ebay requires. And at least in photos, some of these fakes are convincing. I still doubt very much that anyone with the resources to make really good fakes is going to bother in order to earn a couple thousand dollars a day. But I wonder if the arrival of fakes will finally do something to crash the price of the real notes. And I'm wondering how good the fakes might become, with the prospect of turning a rectangle of paper into $70.

Can false confidence can be eroded by counterfeiting the way that real confidence is? Or is the desire to be deluded is so strong that the arrival of counterfeits will be seen as proof that the RV must be real?

I think, based on the evidence so far, I already know the answer.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1202

Post by Gregg » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:50 pm

BruceHollandRogers wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:22 pm
I'm going to disagree slightly with Gregg's assertion that the Kuwaiti RV never happened and point to Kuwait as the instance where the RV story has a germ of truth. But even as I'm disagreeing with Gregg, if we're talking about an RV that happened as a matter of policy, Gregg's absolutely right.

:snippity:

I don't know how the situation turns out for the hotelier, but it's likely that there was a window during which it was possible for people in his situation to exchange the old money for the new money, with restrictions in place to keep the stolen money in Iraq from returning to be similarly exchanged. But if everything worked out for him, he did effectively experience a ten-fold appreciation for his holdings of Kuwaiti dinar.

So people who acquired dinar in Kuwait's darkest days were well compensated for making a bet that the restored government would again back its paper. Ten-fold or twenty-fold increases would have been unremarkable. But very few people would have had this experience. If you were Kuwaiti, you'd have seen the value of your currency plunge and then recover to exactly where it had been. It would only be people who had received dinar when it was essentially without value who would have made money. And, of course, they'd have made that money at the expense of Kuwaitis whose money had been aggressively devalued at the barrel of a gun.

Now, if the Kuwaiti dinar was traded in official currency exchanges outside of Kuwait, and if trading remained open under these dubious circumstances, then the relative value of the Kuwaiti dinar would show on the charts as falling steeply and recovering with a V-shaped rocket. But my best guess is that any such exchanges were shuttered by the invasion and the only dinar RV fortunes made were booked by people like my imaginary hotelier. I doubt that even any US soldiers were in a situation where they bought and sold dinar in the right time frame, but there were probably US soldiers who heard stories by people in the hotelier's situation and dreamed of having made fortunes by buying dinar at the right moment.

So my understanding, strictly anecdotal, is that the Iraqi dinar myth began with soldiers who had heard stories about the Kuwaiti dinar and thought that Iraq represented a similar opportunity.
Well, sort of. The Kuwaiti Dinar trading was stopped on normal exchanges on the day of the invasion. The Kuwaiti Government and the Central Bank guaranteed the backing of the Dinar but that promise was a leap of faith for people who were holding Dinar. The guy in the hotel example is just a theoretical, in reality such people were paying with credit cards or non-Dinar denominated payment methods. The Official exchange rate of the Kuwaiti Dinar never changed. The people who in real life made a killing, and there were a very few, were people either in Kuwait with hard currency who were brave enough to trade it for Dinar at street rates which were pennies on the dollar (fils on the dinar). You could, in the first days of the occupation buy a dinar worth $3.50 US or so officially for a quarter or less. Of course, this was limited by how much dollars, pounds, yen or marks you had in the trunk on a very lucky day, if you were brave enough to part with it with tanks rolling down the street and then had a good hidey hole to turn invisible in until the US Army came and kicked the Iraqis out. Then, presto, those Dinar were worth the full $3.50 again and you made a killing, but the point here is, this was a speculation on whether a currency and its backing would survive a war, there was no RV. A time after this the Kuwaitis, aware that the Iraqis had stolen a LOT of currency, demonetized the entire currency supply (they happily knew the serial numbers of the ones that were stolen) and exchanged them for replacement notes, 1 to 1. You had to go to Kuwait to do this in person and if you had large amounts, you had to explain why, which was not uncommon, it is after all a pretty ritzy place where people are known to hoard cash.

Again, the official rate never changed, the foreign banks that had any amounts of Dinar buckled up and rode it out (I was working at the Bank of England during all of this, and we were scared but trying to dump any of the reserves we held was out of the question) and the only money to be made was made off the people who were holding some Dinar cash at the wrong time, and sold it at discount in private transactions.

There are a lot of ''stories'' of people who made millions or billions of dollars, but there are a lot of stories of Bigfoot and his summit meeting with the Zetas and HATJ at the South Pole, too.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1203

Post by BruceHollandRogers » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:23 pm

Many thanks, Gregg, for letting me go from my fanciful theorizing to more specific scenarios of who might have benefitted from the dinar collapse and recovery. It's also great to know about the status of reserves held in foreign banks.

The side scams around the RV --- the instruction in setting up trusts, financial advice, the assorted flavors of gurus --- are why I think this scam will continue to run until its believers die. There may have been kick-backs from Sterling Currency Group to gurus, but Sterling has been out of the picture for a long time now, and the gurus keep on ticking and asking for donations to keep up their effort to "inform" their listeners.

I hadn't listened to Ray Renfrow's show for a while. Now he and his convicted felon brother are doing the show together a couple times a week, and it starts with a professional-sounding rap song about "getting ready for the RV." As for Tony, it doesn't sound like prison has changed him at all, and whatever combination of income streams Ray and Tony have, they seem to be highly sustainable. No end in sight.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1204

Post by Gregg » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:19 pm

The currency of most countries that do not float on their own are usually backed up by specie and hard currency deposits in foreign banks, and while they all keep a few tonnes of gold for ''walking around money'' local in places like Kuwait, in fact most of their gold, and that most most nations, is safe and sound under Wall Street at the New York Federal Reserve Bank. Anyhow, if the place that gets taken over/revolutioned or falls into the sea, and they don't have big old tankers full of oil coming out of the ground every day so the US doesn't send the 101st to save them, the foreign banks make a judgement call, do they lock everything down and wait it out, hoping normallcy returns or not.

Were Canada to be taken over by a bunch of phucknuts from West Virginia and no one came to their aid, and the new leaders renounce the old currency the foreign banks would be the ones taking the hit. Canada has a floating currency, which means the markets trust it enough to think it won't get taken over, it won't start printing so much they turn into Zimbabwe and they can otherwise be trusted, so they don't have to prove every day they have enough gold, dollars or other hard currency to buy every note issued. A pegged currency, on the other hand, like the Dinar, does have to prove that they have something to back up the money they issue and further, it needs to be substantially safe. Contrary to the DInaridgits faith, having a bunch of oil in the ground don't count, because its not much good as collateral. FFS, I have to stop, if I get started on discussing the reasons all that oil doesn't count I'll end up writing a book and boring the piss out of everyone.... The oil don't count...gold, dollars euros pounds sterling etc....


Some commercial banks might hold some FOREX for a hedge or investment purpose and all of them have what is called ''transactional FOREX'' for when you come home from vacation and want to trade that monopoly money they use where all the good beaches are for good old 'Murican Dollars, and central banks are the middlemen for all of it. When your local Wells Fargo want to send all your Euros back to Brussels, they send it the NY Fed where they get credited dollars, and the central banks settle up a few days a week, depending on how much is involved. Euros would go back daily, Iraqi Dinars are probably a once a week thing.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1205

Post by TheNewSaint » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:37 pm

Gregg wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:19 pm
FFS, I have to stop, if I get started on discussing the reasons all that oil doesn't count I'll end up writing a book and boring the piss out of everyone....
I'd read it.
This bramble need not be traversed.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1206

Post by Jeffrey » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:49 pm

I’m guessing it boils down to the fact that only extracted oil counts and that gets immediately sold so it can’t function as an asset if you sell it immediately.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1207

Post by RTH10260 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:08 pm

Jeffrey wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:49 pm
I’m guessing it boils down to the fact that only extracted oil counts and that gets immediately sold so it can’t function as an asset if you sell it immediately.
IMHO I would reformulate that: oil reserves as the riches of a nation would suport a currency, but only if they have a reliable government system that will guarantee long term uninterrupted production over decades. Of course the fluctuating prices on international markets will also play a role.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1208

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:08 am

To put it in real simple terms, the oil would only count if you could get it all out of the ground at one time. The problem then is that if you tried to sell it, it would tank, pun intended, the world oil markets destroying the value. As in too much of a good thing. Real life example, oil production goes up, oil prices go down, as they are right now, goes up too high and market crashes. Same with gold, silver, precious metals, diamonds. Scarcity makes value, abundance depletes value. Other example, in 1852 Aluminum was worth $1200 per kilo to $1 modernly for the same amount. Emperor Napoleon III had plates and cutlery made of it and ate off them since it was so valuable, at the time.

To come back around, Iraq barely has enough economy to support a currency, and its continued existence is still so tenuous that it is really lucky it is supporting it as well as it is.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1209

Post by Gregg » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:44 pm

Iraq takes a portion of their oil revenue and deposits them in the Central Bank of Iraq, as those deposits come in, the Central Bank has chosen to issue more currency in roughly the same amount to keep the value of the dinar low. If they wanted to increase the value of their currency (and they don't) they could keep the money supply static while increasing reserves, which would cause the exchange rate to rise. The point is, they have a US dollar (or other hard currency) on deposit for every 1180 DInar, or whatever the exchange rate is.

In a pegged currency, they have to be able to buy every Dinar offered to them for exchange at the official rate. So if they did decide to RV at 1:1 to the dollar, this would obviously lead to damn near every dinar existing being presented to them for exchange. They have to have the dollars to do that, and that is why it'll never happen. If you seriously wanted to watch for a true sign that the value was going to rise, the number to watch would be oil revenue deposited and the ratio between that and new money supply. When the deposits continues but the new issue slows, the rate would rise. Its possible they may do this, but I don't think they will in the near term.

As I've said, they have made a conscience decision to keep the rate at what it is, and the money supply has risen in pretty perfect correlation to the oil revenue deposits to the Central Bank. Its a policy decision that they have made to keep the Dinar at ~1190:1 to the dollar.

Also, the dollars backing the Dinar are not in some vault in Baghdad, they're in foreign banks, so if Iran decides to invade and take over, the Central Bank could still, in theory, still redeem most of those dinar. Were that to really happen, of course, the new regime would try to take control of those reserves and the Central Bank in general.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1210

Post by Gregg » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:52 pm

I forgot what I started out to say. In very simplified terms, oil reserves cannot count because in a relatively unstable country you don't know who will control those reserves, either through government control of even if they sell the rights to say, Exxon-Mobil. What still doesn't count as far as collateral goes, but does affect the value of the currency, is the cash flow stream those reserves generate. You can't get way with basing a currency on the oil in the ground, but you can use the real money that oil does generate to support your currency if you can take some of that money and save it as reserves to back you your currency.

Your collateral, if you want to call it that, has to be liquid in a time of crisis.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1211

Post by woodworker » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:20 am

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:08 am
To put it in real simple terms, the oil would only count if you could get it all out of the ground at one time. The problem then is that if you tried to sell it, it would tank, pun intended, the world oil markets destroying the value. As in too much of a good thing. Real life example, oil production goes up, oil prices go down, as they are right now, goes up too high and market crashes. Same with gold, silver, precious metals, diamonds. Scarcity makes value, abundance depletes value. Other example, in 1852 Aluminum was worth $1200 per kilo to $1 modernly for the same amount. Emperor Napoleon III had plates and cutlery made of it and ate off them since it was so valuable, at the time.

To come back around, Iraq barely has enough economy to support a currency, and its continued existence is still so tenuous that it is really lucky it is supporting it as well as it is.
Re Napoleon III, I remember reading that at a dinner he gave all of the guests used gold cutlery while he used an aluminum spoon, the aluminum being so rare and expensive that it was much more prestigious and showy than mere gold.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1212

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:33 am

woodworker wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:20 am
Notorial Dissent wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:08 am
To put it in real simple terms, the oil would only count if you could get it all out of the ground at one time. The problem then is that if you tried to sell it, it would tank, pun intended, the world oil markets destroying the value. As in too much of a good thing. Real life example, oil production goes up, oil prices go down, as they are right now, goes up too high and market crashes. Same with gold, silver, precious metals, diamonds. Scarcity makes value, abundance depletes value. Other example, in 1852 Aluminum was worth $1200 per kilo to $1 modernly for the same amount. Emperor Napoleon III had plates and cutlery made of it and ate off them since it was so valuable, at the time.

To come back around, Iraq barely has enough economy to support a currency, and its continued existence is still so tenuous that it is really lucky it is supporting it as well as it is.
Re Napoleon III, I remember reading that at a dinner he gave all of the guests used gold cutlery while he used an aluminum spoon, the aluminum being so rare and expensive that it was much more prestigious and showy than mere gold.
Exactly. It was so expensive to produce and thus rare. That all changed of course when the inexpensive extraction method was perfected not too long there after. AL is one of the more common minerals after all.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1213

Post by Sam the Centipede » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:34 am

The key to modern extraction of aluminum is electricity, lots of electricity, so smelters are often close to large hydroelectric power plants. It's the electricity requirement that makes recycling of cans etc. economic (as well as being more environmentally friendly) despite the easy availability of bauxite ore.

Not available technology in Napoleon's day!

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1214

Post by Gregg » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:42 am

The very tip of the Washington monument is Aluminum for the same reason, it was the most valuable precious metal at the time. There was also a major impact on the value of gold after the Spanish started stealing it literally by the boatload from South America.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1215

Post by BruceHollandRogers » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:35 pm

Gregg wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:44 pm
So if they did decide to RV at 1:1 to the dollar, this would obviously lead to damn near every dinar existing being presented to them for exchange. They have to have the dollars to do that, and that is why it'll never happen.
This ignores the principle that underlies the Global Currency Reset:

Magic.

Or in some versions, wise extraterrestrials. Or divine intervention.

Or magical wise extraterrestrial divinities coordinating with Chinese secret societies.

I might be conflating some GCR theories, but I'm not purely inventing any of those details.

And what I find most interesting about belief in the RV or GCR is the widespread underlying belief in magic. No wonder _The Secret_ was a bestseller.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1216

Post by Grumpy Old Guy » Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:54 pm

Belief in the RV and related is indeed religious.

Look at the Sun Tsu reply to this innocuous comment.
AnonymousJanuary 10, 2019 at 4:45 PM
I am glad to see that the Jural Assemblies post will always be on top. That has been Freewill's main focus, now that the RV is getting more and more unlikely.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1217

Post by RoadScholar » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:04 pm

Gregg wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:42 am
The very tip of the Washington monument is Aluminum for the same reason, it was the most valuable precious metal at the time. There was also a major impact on the value of gold after the Spanish started stealing it literally by the boatload from South America.
I have an early 19th C. set of Opera Glasses (basically binoculars) that were apparently a wonderful and rare luxury... made of aluminum.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1218

Post by mmmirele » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:46 am

It appears that Zimbabwe is apparently introducing a new currency to replace its reliance on foreign currencies (dollar, euro, South African rand and other currencies) as official currencies. I can't claim to understand what they're doing here and hope there's someone who can explain both what's going on and whether this will kill the Zim trading dead or give it new life.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... b8d968e9c9

I heard about this yesterday on the BBC World News but all it said was that a new currency was being implemented, no details.

I was reminded about this when I saw this tweet--apparently some sector of the QAnon crazies are going hard for the Zim.


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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1219

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:05 am

mmmirele wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:46 am
It appears that Zimbabwe is apparently introducing a new currency to replace its reliance on foreign currencies (dollar, euro, South African rand and other currencies) as official currencies. I can't claim to understand what they're doing here and hope there's someone who can explain both what's going on and whether this will kill the Zim trading dead or give it new life.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... b8d968e9c9

I heard about this yesterday on the BBC World News but all it said was that a new currency was being implemented, no details.

I was reminded about this when I saw this tweet--apparently some sector of the QAnon crazies are going hard for the Zim.

https:// twitter.com/travis_view/status/1100992671219277824
My economically totally uninformed guess: all paper currency floating around the world outside the borders of Zimbabwe will be a total loss. Inside Zimbabwe there will be a short period of time, like days to a week, to hand in old paper notes in exchange to new currency. During the swap period, possibly even into the future, importation of old currency notes will be prohibited. The value of the old currency will be measured against goods available in the country matching up to the prices in defacto locally used foreign currency. The international banking system that still may hold old currency accounts will get a sweathart deal if the moneys have been declared ahead of the swap.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1220

Post by Notorial Dissent » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:38 am

My understanding, such as it is, is that the Zim worldwide, in whatever form, Is not just essentially worthless, but totally and absolutely worthless. I can't really imagine a scenario where at this late date they would bother with the pointless exercise of converting totally worthless currency for real currency, even at umpty trillion to one new Zim. What they might do is issue new Zim for foreign currency/precious metal, but again I don't see the point, and I don't see the trust sitting out there to allow them to do so.

I just don't see this making the Zim holders rich, let alone break even.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1221

Post by TheNewSaint » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:19 am

RTH10260 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:05 am
My economically totally uninformed guess: all paper currency floating around the world outside the borders of Zimbabwe will be a total loss. Inside Zimbabwe there will be a short period of time, like days to a week, to hand in old paper notes in exchange to new currency.
I think they've already done that, though. My recollection is that Zimbabwe stopped issuing currency about 4-5 years ago, and gave everybody $5 US for whatever they had, as part of the switch to using USD. So the Zim government has already met whatever obligations they had to service existing currency.
This bramble need not be traversed.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1222

Post by ssmith » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:18 am

TheNewSaint wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:19 am
RTH10260 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:05 am
My economically totally uninformed guess: all paper currency floating around the world outside the borders of Zimbabwe will be a total loss. Inside Zimbabwe there will be a short period of time, like days to a week, to hand in old paper notes in exchange to new currency.
I think they've already done that, though. My recollection is that Zimbabwe stopped issuing currency about 4-5 years ago, and gave everybody $5 US for whatever they had, as part of the switch to using USD. So the Zim government has already met whatever obligations they had to service existing currency.
But what people don't realize that this currency was printed on "bond" paper and therefore is a bond and will be worth gazillions. Or so the story goes. LOL

Image

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1223

Post by ssmith » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:32 am

This is from guru Becky McGee/Oootah:

http://www.oootahcall.com/docs/ZIM-Doc.pdf

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1224

Post by Notorial Dissent » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:28 pm

Zimbabwe went from issuing gazillion dollar paper notes that were worth next to nothing, to using foreign currency, dollars/Ecus/etc, to issuing bond notes that were based on foreign currency they had in reserves. None of which, except the middle one really worked very well. Last I heard they were back to using foreign currency. The gurus document is just more wurdz cobbled together to look like something it isn't.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1225

Post by Foggy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:36 pm

Since the president just visited fell on his face again in Vietnam, I must ask:

Are we still supposed to be holding our dong? :blink: :-

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