Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1051

Post by Flatpointhigh » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:09 pm

Pamster wrote:Wow. I ran across this little corner of lunacy recently & just finished reading this entire thread. Like many others, I was led to the Fogbow reading about the Malheur brouhaha. I think these folks are even dumber and crazier than the Dildonians. I didn't think that was actually possible. Anyway, thank you all for a fascinating read!
"Dildonians" :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1052

Post by Pamster » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:19 pm

Can't take credit; I stole it from Fark. Personally, I prefer the Vanilla ISIS nomenclature.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1053

Post by jonbeck » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:30 pm

Hard to believe there can be much life left in this grift.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1054

Post by Pamster » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:37 pm

jonbeck wrote:Hard to believe there can be much life left in this grift.
If they're still buying, I have no idea. But I was talking (well, trolling) some folks on YouTube today that are still convinced. One was saying that it would happen when the number of notes went down to 1 billion or something. It was, unsurprisingly, a little incoherent.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1055

Post by LightinDarkness » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:15 am

Pamster wrote:
jonbeck wrote:Hard to believe there can be much life left in this grift.
If they're still buying, I have no idea. But I was talking (well, trolling) some folks on YouTube today that are still convinced. One was saying that it would happen when the number of notes went down to 1 billion or something. It was, unsurprisingly, a little incoherent.
Oh they are still very much buying. Despite dealers like Sterling Currency having their assets seized due to fraud for pumping, the idiots are still buying. The more bizarre and worthless the currency, the more they buy (especially the Zim).

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1056

Post by Pamster » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:21 am

Yeah, I mentioned the Sterling thing to them & that was totally not even relevant because reasons. Astonishing.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1057

Post by Notorial Dissent » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:32 am

As someone I know succinctly puts it, "idjits be idjits".
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1058

Post by LightinDarkness » Sun Jun 05, 2016 3:25 pm

Somehow - and I don't know how this could possibly happen - all the guru predictions of a June 1 RV were wrong. The Powers That Be must have stopped it (again). No fear though, we have entered Ramadan. In the RV scam world, this is a glorious period which offers us multiple predicted RV dates. The gurus will predict the RV is for sure for each of the following dates, as they do every year:

June 5 - Start of Ramadan, we must RV so that all the Muslims can go out and celebrate!
June 30 - End of the month, RV is always promised on the last day of every month.
July 1 - Start of the month, RV is always promised on the first day of every month.
July 4 - What better way to celebrate our independence than with an RV? Ignore the fact that its an American holiday, surely Iraq will think its important.
July 5 - End of Ramadan, we must RV so that all the Muslims can go out and celebrate!

After that we hit a dry period. The gurus usually only pump the beginning/end of each month until we hit Thanksgiving. Which is always a for-sure RV date so we can go out and spend on Black Friday.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1059

Post by Pamster » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:10 am

Ok, so I just finished reading that whole thread on Quatloos that was linked on the first page of this thread. Surprisingly riveting, but I'm left with a few questions:
1. Is this "New Republic" the Dinarians refer to the same pseudolegal cargo cult law system that the Dildonians and their ilk subscribe to? The same players? Or is it a whole 'nother bunch of nuts with their own pretend legal system?
2. What is up with these magical Chinese dragon family people? Where the hell did something that bizarre come from? Is this the same weird world with the alien shape-shifting lizard people? I'm having difficulties keeping this straight.
3. Perhaps most intriguing to me because it sounds downright hilarious, is the thing in Reno where a buncha Dinarians went to exchange their money & got stranded there because they were all broke. Did that undoubtedly humbling experience wake any of them up?
Any links here or other sites regarding these burning questions will be enjoyed. It's kind of surprising to me that there has not been more media coverage on a scam this long and involved.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1060

Post by LightinDarkness » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:07 pm

I've spent years following the RV cult, and here would be my answers to those questions (just my opinions based on personal observations):
Pamster wrote:Ok, so I just finished reading that whole thread on Quatloos that was linked on the first page of this thread. Surprisingly riveting, but I'm left with a few questions:
1. Is this "New Republic" the Dinarians refer to the same pseudolegal cargo cult law system that the Dildonians and their ilk subscribe to? The same players? Or is it a whole 'nother bunch of nuts with their own pretend legal system?
Part of the allure of the RV cult is that the mythology can be molded to whatever the individual already wishes were true. In terms of the "new republic" there are a few common threads. Generally, the "new republic" is a belief founded in the NESARA mythology. NESARA is the basis of all "new republic" myths, but the nature of the republic changes slightly depending on the type of prosperity cult the believer is in. Typical prosperity cultists that come from the evangelical side believe in a theocratic christian republic. Others, like Moorish Science Temple sovereign citizens, believe the new republic will be ruled by African American Moors. The republic is whatever you want it to be.
Pamster wrote: 2. What is up with these magical Chinese dragon family people? Where the hell did something that bizarre come from? Is this the same weird world with the alien shape-shifting lizard people? I'm having difficulties keeping this straight.
It would take a sociology dissertation or five to answer that, but in my opinion there are three sources for this. First, the magical Dragon families are a mental manifestation of the "exotic east" for prosperity cultists. Remember, 99% of the people who believe in this stuff are severely limited in their worldview. The east is mystical to them, including China. Most of them are baby boomers who grew up in an era where China and other eastern countries like Japan were vilified as taking control of America. By giving eastern families magical power, the myth is a way for true believers to be 100% contrarian. Second, China is convenient because these are people that know nothing about world politics. China is exotic enough that they can project what we all know to be completely made up (for example, the idea that China is on the gold standard). Third, China is a manifestation of the prosperity cultist belief that all things in America except the mythical new Republic are evil. There can be no good magical families in America because all governments/institutions/etc. are completely evil.
Pamster wrote: 3. Perhaps most intriguing to me because it sounds downright hilarious, is the thing in Reno where a buncha Dinarians went to exchange their money & got stranded there because they were all broke. Did that undoubtedly humbling experience wake any of them up?
Any links here or other sites regarding these burning questions will be enjoyed. It's kind of surprising to me that there has not been more media coverage on a scam this long and involved.
You'd think the Reno experience would wake people up, but remember how incredibly invested these people are in this scam. Their entire life revolves around it. They can never admit they are being scammed because their life is consumed with following the mythical RV events. All Reno does is make the true believers claim that you have to be careful because, while the RV is real, the Dark Cabal sets up stuff like Reno to make people think this is all fake. Its all a ruse by the Dark Cabal to get you to sell your dinars, you see!

As for outside links, I recommend:
iraqcurrencywatch.com/ - Updated and very good research on gurus. The problem with this one is that at least one of the posters, somehow, still believers in the "global currency reset." I don't know how they could believe in this and bash dinar gurus, but cognitive dissonance is a thing.

dinardouchebags.blogspot.com - Good and funny review of gurus. Is not updated.

mriqd.com - Interesting perspective here. This is a true believer who just thinks the gurus are pumpers. Also no longer updated.

Outside of places like Fogbow and Quatloos, I know of no 100% skeptic communities that actively watch the RV scam.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1061

Post by Pamster » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:23 am

Thank you very much for your very informative response and additional links. One more question, if I may...
An area of particular interest of mine is the spread of Dominionism. This seems to have that sort of...flavor. But I'm still having trouble sorting out these various evangelical/prosperity/dominions sects. Just wondering if and how this fits into that world.
Last night I stumbled onto one of these calls (I've sampled a few others, the TNT folks, the Big Call), I dunno who this guy is, but I actually listened to the whole thing because I was so appalled. The woman that speaks after the host spends like an hour justifying greed in the name of her god or whatever. I'm just interested in trying to understand how these people's heads work. Here's the link in case it interests anyone.

http://events.instantteleseminar.com/?eventid=85613691

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1062

Post by Suranis » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:14 am

The way it fits in is that they are playing to the audience. They know they American audience is very evangelical so they couch their scam into the same language as Prosperity theology. If they were speaking to an audience of Atheists they would be talking about market forces and mathematics and Gordon Gekko "greed is good" supply side BS.

When you are running a con you talk to the audience, tell the audience they are smart and then talk their language. You want the audience agreeing with you and then you drop justifications for their greed
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1063

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:03 am

Apparently greed is good in the Boardroom, but not in the Union Hall. There it's evil.
The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.
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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1064

Post by LightinDarkness » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:05 am

Pamster wrote:Thank you very much for your very informative response and additional links. One more question, if I may...
An area of particular interest of mine is the spread of Dominionism. This seems to have that sort of...flavor. But I'm still having trouble sorting out these various evangelical/prosperity/dominions sects. Just wondering if and how this fits into that world.
Last night I stumbled onto one of these calls (I've sampled a few others, the TNT folks, the Big Call), I dunno who this guy is, but I actually listened to the whole thing because I was so appalled. The woman that speaks after the host spends like an hour justifying greed in the name of her god or whatever. I'm just interested in trying to understand how these people's heads work. Here's the link in case it interests anyone.

http://events.instantteleseminar.com/?eventid=85613691
Glad to help!

The call you linked is one of the relatively new calls, Wing It. Wing It has an interesting history. As you know, one of the biggest pumpers is TNT Tony (Anthony Renfrow). Tony was put on trial for MLM fraud unrelated to his pumping, and made a plea deal. But lots of disenchanted dinar people wrote in to the court while it was considering Tony's sentencing. As a result, Tony's reduced sentence also carried the condition that he cease all dinar pumping operations. In response, the pumping was taken over by his brother Ray Renfrow. But Ray - while still undoubtedly making money - is not as good at his job and is much more cautious given that he knows the US DOJ is now watching. As a result, there was a new demand for a call that would tell people more of what they wanted to hear (RV today!). Some of the big posters from TNT Tony's forums started that call, and that is what you are hearing. It is unclear to me whether they are true believers or are working as pumpers for dealers. I am inclined to believe the host is a true believer, while the guests are professional pumpers.

Regarding Dominionism, I would agree with the other posters that Dominionism in the RV world is simply a means to to sell the scam. It is a good tool for scammers because mixing it with the RV via the new republic mythology is intoxicating for many of the marks. The RV scam is spread through affinity fraud, and so the theology that goes with it will mold to fit the audience.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1065

Post by Pamster » Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:13 am

Using the Dominionists as a victim pool for this scam is actually brilliant; it fits right in with that whole "end-times transfer of wealth from the wicked to the righteous" belief that they have. Which rather amuses me; since the transfer of wealth seems to be going from one horrible group of people to another.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1066

Post by GlimDropper » Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:25 am

A simple fact, getting people to throw their hands in the air and shout Hallelujah makes it a lot easier to pick their pockets.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1067

Post by mmmirele » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:20 am

The NYTimes talks about Zimbabwe's attempt to issue a currency that isn't the US dollar but will function like the US dollar in its dollar-starved economy. A lot of this is familiar to us.
Enter “bond notes.” Unable to print the real thing, Zimbabwe’s central bank recently announced that it would introduce a kind of ersatz American money for citizens to use in its place. The new notes (which have nothing to do with bonds) will be issued in denominations of $2, $5, $10 and $20, and to ensure their value, the bank says it will print only $200 million worth, backed by the Africa Export and Import Bank.

Not surprisingly, there has been a strong backlash. Economists, opposition politicians and many ordinary Zimbabweans say the bond notes are a maneuver by President Robert Mugabe’s government to reintroduce a local currency.

The inevitable next step, critics say, will be to issue the bond notes far too liberally. That is what happened with the old Zimbabwean dollar, which the government printed without restraint a decade ago.

Hyperinflation was the result, rendering the currency nearly worthless. Before the government finally gave up and switched to the American greenback, it was churning out a denomination so absurdly large that it has become a favorite among currency collectors: the $100 trillion note. That’s 100,000,000,000,000 Zimbabwean dollars. (Or about 35 American cents.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/24/world ... witw4&_r=0

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1068

Post by LightinDarkness » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:19 pm

Funny thing, that article has already been used by pumpers to claim that the RV is real - because the money is called "bond notes." Even though the article DIRECTLY SAYS that the notes have NOTHING TO DO WITH ACTUAL BONDS, the pumpers claim this is proof of bond redemptions. And of course, the community is buying it. Stupidity knows no bounds.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1069

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:57 pm

So they're going to issue 200M in funny money notes based on borrowed money? And this is going to help their already moribund/dead economy exactly how? I doubt if they're even making enough off their oil exports to cover the interest on that.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1070

Post by BruceHollandRogers » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:31 pm

So here's my update from the inside of the banknote trade:

Demand has softened in the last two weeks for zim, but I have learned that this is no indication of where things will go next. The trend still seems to be toward higher prices, but with remarkable ebbs and flows. The Z$500-million note in circulated condition was worth about a dollar until this year. The new pumping myth had individual notes selling for twenty or even thirty dollars on eBay. Now I think that whoever was pumping these the hardest hasn't mentioned them in a while, and it's possible to buy one for about three bucks.

Because the institute where I taught for the last eleven years suddenly went bankrupt, selling notes is my only significant source of income as I return to full-time freelance writing. I'm living by the arbitrage of a middle man, seeking out the vanishing opportunities to pick up some high-denomination zim in volume to profit from selling them one at a time. I know that most of my buyers aren't collectors, so even as I profit from this phenomenon, I'm trying to save buyers who can see reason.

My listings state explicitly that the zim ceased to be used in 2009 and was officially demonetized in 2015. I say that the notes are no longer money and will never be money again. In some listings, I have even said that it will never be possible to exchange these Zimbabwe dollars for US dollars. I change up the language, and have cited the RV and the GCR in particular as hoaxes. The downside for me is that if I managed to dissuade enough buyers who see my listings, I might not be able to sell my remaining notes at a profit. The upside for speaking up for the truth is that I can live with myself.

I have mentioned before the airline pilot who bought thousands of dollars in notes from me. He and a few others I have corresponded with have surprised me as not falling into the categories of seeming particularly credulous or gullible, or having a belief system that would otherwise rely on magical thinking. He speaks of Zimbabwe notes as a part of his broad investment portfolio that invests in all sorts of long shots.

I'd really like to be able to go interview a thousand dinarians to get a sense of their supporting beliefs, their relationship with money, their politics, and how they relate to reality. A year and a half ago, I made a disastrous investment of some of my retirement funds in Master Limited Partnerships producing oil. I didn't challenge my own assumptions, dig deep enough into the finances, or face the reality that I risked riding these investments all the way into bankruptcy as the price of oil kept falling, and then rose only modestly. I am in most respects a man of reason, making evidence-based decisions, but I can't look down too much on dinarians since I think we're all susceptible to some form of hopium.

Anyway, I wanted to report two little victories. I have entered into conversations with a lot of buyers, especially those who wanted to make repeat purchases or inquire about large quantities of notes. Twice in June, I talked buyers into reconsidering the whole RV.

But that's two successes out of many attempts. I console myself with this fact about the failures: I sell near the bottom of the price range in any market, so those who buy from me are paying less for their zims. They may end up "investing" every bit as much money as if they had bought from Templeton Collectibles, Zimbabwedollars.net, Great American Coin Company, or APMEX, but they will have more notes. If they wise up and sell, they will get more of their money bank thanks to having bought from me. My airline pilot could by now sell the notes he bought from me at a profit.

I still have a bit of enabler's guilt when I hear these people call into the dinar shows to say that they sure hope the RV is this week, because they don't have the next house payment.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1071

Post by BruceHollandRogers » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:02 pm

Two more points:

Point the first:

Clarity about the bond notes that Zimbabwe is printing: Zimbabweans will be right to be suspicious since nothing about the Mugabe regime suggests that they would do as they say. They will very likely overprint the supply when doing so solves a short-term problem for them. There is, however, an entirely rational idea behind the proposal, and it would be a good move if the country were governed by trustworthy people who backed the idea with honest accounting.

Because the USD is the preferred exchange medium, Zimbabwe's problem is that dollars entered the economy only as banknotes. The bond coins were an effort to set aside a reserve of US dollars and issue an equivalent value in coins so that people could make change. Zimbabwe's coins had no value, and they just didn't have enough coinage of the other currencies they were using. The shortages were so bad that people could make a living buying coins at less than face and selling them at a premium to businesses that needed to be able to make change. Another imperfect solution had been to make change with hard candies.

The bond coins helped to create a working form of small money.

The locally-produced US dollar banknotes resolve the other problem of using the currency of another nation, especially one that is far away and that you aren't trading with. Bank notes wear out. They get dirty. Eventually, they can become so worn and soiled that it becomes difficult to get your counter-party to accept them in trade. I suppose the RBZ could have had a program of collecting worn notes to exchange with the Federal Reserve, but that's expensive.

Ecuador has been using the US dollar as its currency for all of this century so far. They mint their own coins, probably under a mechanism similar to Zimbabwe's bond coins, but they use paper dollars. I suspect it is much easier for them to do business with the fed when it comes to retiring worn banknotes and getting new ones, just because there's more direct commerce between Ecuador and the US.

Point the second:

An ugly feature of some dinar gurus preys on a characteristic trait of the poor: their generosity. The poor tend to be quite generous with what wealth they have. Given that they have little, a poor person who gives $10 to another poor person is devoting a much larger portion of his resources than a rich person giving the same $10. But the poor also know what it is to need and not have, whereas the rich only know what it's like to want something and not have it. The poor tend to be generous in their outlook.

As part of their schtick, a lot of gurus will say that the reason certain people are going to be in on this great deal is because they are good and generous people, and they are going to share their windfall. Some gurus urge believers to set up plans for the good works they are going to be able to perform for the less fortunate, and suggest that it is these good intentions that will help insure that when the time comes, they will receive the windfall. The pitch is that you're not being greedy to want to exchange for billions of dollars, because you're going to save the world with the proceeds. You are going to be the ones who usher in a better era for all of mankind as the wealth ends up in the hands of generous people like you.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1072

Post by boots » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:57 pm

OK wait, so you sell worthless currency to people who are trying to invest in it, and you know it is worthless, yet you also try to talk them out of buying it from you? All the while you are selling it to them? :confused:

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1073

Post by BruceHollandRogers » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:41 am

I sell banknotes to collectors. Except when I have taken a survey of buyers, I don't know which are collectors who want what has become a must-have item (the Z$100-trillion has the highest denomenation ever by some measures) and which are buying because they believe scammers. Collectors and RV believers alike have to pay the price that is determined by the demand generated by RV believers.

I bought my first zim notes because it was clear that they would be of interest to collectors and as a novelty: Notes of the greatest hyperinflation in history, denominated in dollars, printed in English. My expectation was that notes that I bought for a buck and stored would sell for five, or one day maybe ten.

I'd like the scam market to go away. I'd be able to source notes at a lower price and sell them for less, but still profitably. I do all that I can to discourage buyers who believe that they can get rich. But my business sideline is selling banknotes to collectors. I'm not going to stop trading just because the market is distorted by delusion.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1074

Post by LightinDarkness » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:55 am

Bruce, thanks for the update. For whatever it is worth (not much, I'm sure), I think you have a reasonable position. You sell collectible currency because of its novelty value, and there is nothing wrong with that. You also know that the market you are in is swarmed by delusional people being scammed by RV gurus.

You could do one of two things with that information:

(1) You could stop selling zim notes entirely because you don't want to scam people. But doing this won't stop the problem, the big dealers that have contracts with pumpers will simply sell more to take up your market slack.

(2) You could continue to sell, but take reasonable steps to only market toward people that are interested in zim for the collectible value. I think you do this, although if it were me I'd probably put more direct language on every listing ("THE ZIMBABWE DOLLAR HAS NO VALUE AND IS NO LONGER CURRENCY. IT WILL NEVER BE CURRENCY AGAIN. IF YOU ARE BUYING THIS BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE THE DOLLAR WILL REVALUE AND YOU WILL BE ABLE TO EXCHANGE IT FOR DOLLARS, YOU ARE BEING SCAMMED."). The true believers will still buy from you because they will just feel like you are a poor idiot who will not get the chance to take part in the glorious RV.

You choose (2), and I think that is a reasonable path here. I would simply caution you that I think you give far to much credit to some of your buyers. Just because someone has a legitimate job, but is still stupid enough to buy zim because they believe in the RV, doesn't mean this has no negative consequences for them. You mention an airline pilot that buys zim as part of a portfolio of "long shot" investments. You and I both know the RV isn't a "long shot." It is never going to happen, there isn't even a small percent chance of it. If this guy is buying into other scams like the RV, then hes creating a portfolio of worthless things. Maybe that's fine because hes paid well now, but airline pilots retire eventually. Instead of investing his money wisely and having a nest egg, he will have literally worthless paper.

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Re: Dinar Valuation and Global Currency Reset Scam Thread

#1075

Post by BruceHollandRogers » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:27 pm

Instead of investing his money wisely and having a nest egg, he will have literally worthless paper.
I agree with everything you said except for the characterization of zim notes as worthless. They are worth something as a collectible and novelty.

In Asia, a custom emerged a couple of years ago of putting a Zimbabwe 100-trillion note inside the traditional red envelopes used for gifts of cash at graduations, weddings, births, etc. My understanding is that they were especially popular for graduations. As an addition to the cash that is meant to say, "Here's some money to help you get started and to express my good wishes," the Zimbabwe note was a way of adding, "...and may your future hold wealth beyond imagining."

This tradition took off at a time when an uncirculated Z$100-trillion was selling for $20, and that was a reasonable price for what amounted to a sort of fancy greeting card. I think that about $20 may be the floor for these notes even if dinarians turned around and became sellers. Those who loaded up on the notes when I was selling them for $8 will have made a decent return, even if they bought for misguided reasons.

I sell notes that I think are beautiful or that have some novelty interest, and all the rest of the currencies that are part of the RV scam are of little interest to me. The notes of Vietnam, Iraq, contemporary Indonesia, and Iran aren't pretty, so I don't touch them. (The Indonesia banknotes of 1959 are some of the most beautiful banknotes from any nation in that era, and I do deal in those.)

As I see it, the novelty value of the world's highest denomination builds a floor for these notes. In good condition, they will not ever be worthless. They are worthless as money, as a medium of exchange. But not as objects.

The novelty use of banknotes tends to take uncirculated copies out of the collector's market. When I was an invited author at a French fantasy festival, I was selling the French translation version of my short-short stories by email subscription service. As an inducement to subscribe, I offered a free Zimbabwe 50-billion note to each new subscriber. It was an effective inducement, or else they really liked the stories I had just read, but anyway, I ended up handing out a lot of these notes. And the first thing most people did was fold the note to put it in a pocket or put it in a billfold. Immediately, those notes were diminished as collectibles.

How many of the notes gifted in red envelopes remain in pristine condition?

I collect banknotes that feature steam locomotives. Among them are some Reichsbahn notes issued by the Stuttgart rail authority in 1923. I can't begin to afford an uncirculated examplar of these notes, but I've paid $40 for a reasonably clean and intact one. Those, too, were once "worthless" at the end of the German hyperinflation.

I'm not saying at all that the market price for Zimbabwe's P-91 note is what it would be under normal market conditions. But it's always going to be a note that certain people will want to have. Buyers have a better chance to get their money out (or more likely, their heirs will have that chance) as opposed to buyers of dinar, rial, rupiah, or dong.

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