Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

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Fortinbras
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6151

Post by Fortinbras » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:14 pm

Reading Benson's pleading, it's obvious that he hasn't read most (perhaps any) of the decisions he cites. His citation style is very inconsistent* - which indicates that he's merely copying quotations from a variety of sources, each of them having slightly different citation style. In some instances he cites decisions for thing they plainly did not say; e.g. he purports to quote "Rodriques v. Ray Donavan 769 F. 2d 1344" with a passage within quotation marks to the effect that laws have no power and God's law is paramount; but Rodriguez v. Donavan, 769 F.2d 1344 cert.den 488 U.S. 888 says nothing of the kind, not even distantly. Stuff like that.

* Note: To be more technical, his citations to US Supreme Court decisions sometimes list US reports first, which is the proper way, and sometimes list US reports after unofficial reporters; in some instances he cites to only one reporter - and not always the official US reports but West Publishing's S.Ct instead (and sometimes typing it Bluebook style, S. Ct., and sometimes S.Ct., Yellow Book style. With state court decisions, he sometimes cites the official state reporter first (old Bluebook style) and then the West Publishing regional reporter, but sometimes the regional reporter first - sometimes citing only the regional reporter with no mention of the state reporter or even the state. This may seem very recondite but to a law librarian and bibliographer it sticks out like a roman candle.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6152

Post by Vee » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:38 pm

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/cou ... to-prison/

:snippity: “Sir, if you’re not answering the court’s question, that is a basis for me not to allow you to represent yourself,” Villani said. “You understand that?”

“I comprehend,” said Benson, who added that the word “understand” is defined in a dictionary as “to stand under the jurisdiction, and I do not stand under the jurisdiction.” :snippity:

What dictionary is Benson reading anyway?



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Notorial Dissent
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6153

Post by Notorial Dissent » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:38 pm

Vee wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:38 pm
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/cou ... to-prison/

:snippity: “Sir, if you’re not answering the court’s question, that is a basis for me not to allow you to represent yourself,” Villani said. “You understand that?”

“I comprehend,” said Benson, who added that the word “understand” is defined in a dictionary as “to stand under the jurisdiction, and I do not stand under the jurisdiction.” :snippity:

What dictionary is Benson reading anyway?
His own made up one, kinda like his legal cites, in fact.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6154

Post by Sam the Centipede » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:26 am

The "understand" = "stand under" trope tripe is a fairly standard bit of sovcit doctrine, I think.

When a sovcit defendant :rolleye: uses Magick Wordz :boxing: in court to thwart the Esquires of Evil, he must be especially vigilant that those cunning craftsmen do not trap :flirty: him with their Spells of Confinement :dazed: which might tempt him into accepting the dominion of the Legion of the Bar over his mortal soul. :panic:



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Suranis
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6155

Post by Suranis » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:40 pm

The "understanding" meaning "stand under your authority" has been a line in Sov citiness for a while. This video talks about it.



Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

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Northland10
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6156

Post by Northland10 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:01 pm

Vee wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:38 pm
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/cou ... to-prison/

:snippity: “Sir, if you’re not answering the court’s question, that is a basis for me not to allow you to represent yourself,” Villani said. “You understand that?”

“I comprehend,” said Benson, who added that the word “understand” is defined in a dictionary as “to stand under the jurisdiction, and I do not stand under the jurisdiction.” :snippity:

What dictionary is Benson reading anyway?
I mused on this a little over a month ago in another thread but I thought I would repost it here, as it is germane to Benson's statements. That said, he probably said dictionary because somebody else said dictionary. As Forti mentioned, his "research" is cut and paste.

Now beginning my remuse:
Northland10 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:27 pm
I sometimes wonder if their "stand under" and "understand" magical thinking derived originally from the old statement/maxim, to understand somebody/something one must stand under (i.e. know about them and their experiences, etc.)

As mentioned by Frederick Douglass
To look at the map and observe the proximity of Eastern shore, Maryland, to Delaware and Pennsylvania, it may seem to the reader quite absurd to regard the proposed escape as a formidable undertaking. But to understand, some one has said, a man must stand under. The real distance was great enough, but the imagined distance was, to our ignorance, much greater. Slaveholders sought to impress their slaves with a belief in the boundlessness of slave territory, and of their own limitless power. Our notions of the geography of the country were very vague and indistinct. The distance, however, was not the chief trouble, for the nearer were the lines of a slave state to the borders of a free state the greater was the trouble. Hired kidnappers infested the borders. Then, too, we knew that merely reaching a free state did not free us, that wherever caught we could be returned to slavery. We knew of no spot this side the ocean where we could be safe.
Or one of early SovCit types fell upon Kant.
Critique of Pure Reason wrote:It is not in the least more difficult to conceive how the laws of the phenomena of nature must harmonize with the understanding and with its a priori form—that is, its faculty of conjoining the manifold- than it is to understand how the phenomena themselves must correspond with the a priori form of our sensuous intuition. For laws do not exist in the phenomena any more than the phenomena exist as things in themselves. Laws do not exist except by relation to the subject in which the phenomena inhere, in so far as it possesses understanding, just as phenomena have no existence except by relation to the same existing subject in so far as it has senses. To things as things in themselves, conformability to law must necessarily belong independently of an understanding to cognize them. But phenomena are only representations of things which are utterly unknown in respect to what they are in themselves. But as mere representations, they stand under no law of conjunction except that which the conjoining faculty prescribes. Now that which conjoins the manifold of sensuous intuition is imagination, a mental act to which understanding contributes unity of intellectual synthesis, and sensibility, manifoldness of apprehension. Now as all possible perception depends on the synthesis of apprehension, and this empirical synthesis itself on the transcendental, consequently on the categories, it is evident that all possible perceptions, and therefore everything that can attain to empirical consciousness, that is, all phenomena of nature, must, as regards their conjunction, be subject to the categories. And nature (considered merely as nature in general) is dependent on them. as the original ground of her necessary conformability to law (as natura formaliter spectata). But the pure faculty (of the understanding) of prescribing laws a priori to phenomena by means of mere categories, is not competent to enounce other or more laws than those on which a nature in general, as a conformability to law of phenomena of space and time, depends. Particular laws, inasmuch as they concern empirically determined phenomena, cannot be entirely deduced from pure laws, although they all stand under them. Experience must be superadded in order to know these particular laws; but in regard to experience in general, and everything that can be cognized as an object thereof, these a priori laws are our only rule and guide.


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6157

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:12 pm

Northland10 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:01 pm
I mused on this a little over a month ago in another thread but I thought I would repost it here, as it is germane to Benson's statements. That said, he probably said dictionary because somebody else said dictionary. As Forti mentioned, his "research" is cut and paste.

[Interesting quotes from Kant and Frederick Douglass omitted]
My suspicion is that poots and sovcits are unlikely to be perusing anything that highbrow, particularly when one of them was written by a person with an abundance of melanin. I suspect that it's a little folk etymology in action, just like how they think that admiralty law applies because the pope is in charge of all corporations and he lives at the Holy See (Sea).

They also raise the argument that you're a vessel subject to admiralty law because you enter this world through the birth/berth canal. There are a few more idiotic homophones in this unhinged document from an unknown author: http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/60609-2/



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Northland10
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6158

Post by Northland10 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:30 pm

JohnPCapitalist wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:12 pm
Northland10 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:01 pm
I mused on this a little over a month ago in another thread but I thought I would repost it here, as it is germane to Benson's statements. That said, he probably said dictionary because somebody else said dictionary. As Forti mentioned, his "research" is cut and paste.

[Interesting quotes from Kant and Frederick Douglass omitted]
My suspicion is that poots and sovcits are unlikely to be perusing anything that highbrow, particularly when one of them was written by a person with an abundance of melanin. I suspect that it's a little folk etymology in action, just like how they think that admiralty law applies because the pope is in charge of all corporations and he lives at the Holy See (Sea).

They also raise the argument that you're a vessel subject to admiralty law because you enter this world through the birth/berth canal. There are a few more idiotic homophones in this unhinged document from an unknown author: http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/60609-2/
Somewhere here, we had links to the newsletter put out by William Potter Gale in the 60 (called Identity, I think). I may need to go back to those and see which of the current claims came from then. Sounds like a good vacation time wasting project. Might be time to continue reviewing the FBI Posse Comitatus files from the 70s and early 1980s.


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Notorial Dissent
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6159

Post by Notorial Dissent » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:06 pm

Kant and Douglass, seriously???? Too wordy, too many big real words, too erudite, and WAY TOO LITERATE for any of the poot crowd. They'd have been lost after the first few words of the first sentence.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6160

Post by Northland10 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:07 pm

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:06 pm
Kant and Douglass, seriously???? Too wordy, too many big real words, too erudite, and WAY TOO LITERATE for any of the poot crowd. They'd have been lost after the first few words of the first sentence.
I didn't say they read it. Somebody may have copied bits and pieces from it and it snowballed from there.


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6161

Post by mmmirele » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:13 pm

Here's a story about Lynn Benson, wife of Thomas. I'll just quote a few things from the article:
Benson initially was arrested in May in Cloverdale, California – 85 miles north of San Francisco – after prosecutors charged her in Las Vegas Justice Court with four counts of mortgage lending fraud, one count of a pattern of mortgage lending fraud, and three counts of theft.
The article has more information regarding why Thomas Benson is back in jail with his probation revoked:
He also was indicted this month on charges that he sent a letter to a Las Vegas police detective to threaten or intimidate the cop from pursuing cases against him.
And a comment from Lynn Benson's court-appointed attorney, summing all this crazy up:
“I can’t tell you one single thing about it other than she’s a sovereign citizen,” he told the Review-Journal.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/cou ... raud-case/



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6162

Post by mmmirele » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:19 pm

More sovereign citizen lunacy in America's Star of the North, Alaska:
Fairbanks North Star Borough’s administrative center remains shut down due to what officials describe as threatening communications. The Juanita Helms Administrative Center was closed Thursday night, just as the assembly was to begin meeting. No threat suspect has been publicly identified, but a local man suspects the situation is the result of his questioning borough authority.

Chris Ripple claims he’s never threatened the borough. Ripple subscribes to sovereign citizen ideology, a perspective that does not acknowledge laws established after the U.S. Constitution. He considers borough taxes illegal, and is fighting to keep the local government from selling off his foreclosed-upon property.

Ripple says the home he built himself, in a rural subdivision north of town, was found burning Thursday afternoon, two days before it was scheduled to be auctioned off by the borough. Ripple says he was in town when the fire started, delivering copies of a newspaper he co-publishes. “Free the People AK” questions institutional authority.

:snippity:

Ripple says that kind of talk generates backlash, and he suspects his house was set on fire by someone who doesn’t agree with the paper’s message.
Now why am I suspicious about this assertion? It seems to me that most people wouldn't care about some dude spouting off sovereign citizen nonsense and that he, Chris Ripple, has more of an incentive to burn his house down rather than let it go to auction. But that's just me.

The Fairbanks administrative center was open for a bit on Friday and then closed again. Authorities are looking into additional security measures. Probably worth keeping an eye on this.

https://www.alaskapublic.org/2018/08/24 ... d-threats/



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6163

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:39 am

Suranis wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:54 pm
Siegfried Shrink wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:55 pm

"Leighton Lionel Ward, 43, was convicted of two counts of fraudulent schemes and artifices, eight counts of forgery, four counts of preparing false documents for filing and one count of theft.

...
Ward, who represented himself at his trial, took the stand late Wednesday and Thursday explaining the made-up syntax language using nouns and mathematics to the jury. Ward was advised by deputy public defender Jacob Chavez.
I knew that name sounded familiar. It's this clown.



17 minutes of pure sovshit arrogance. Enjoy
The other shoe has dropped on Leighton Ward, an acolyte of ODC-afflicted loon David-Wynn: Miller, who made up that bizarre syntax that he claims makes it imposible to lie. Ward engaged in multiple mortgage fraud cases, pretending to intercede with homeowners much as pretend Private Attorney General Anthony Williams did. The result was the same: conviction on all counts and a lengthy sentence.

Ward was sentenced yesterday to 23 1/2 years. A quick Google search (all I have time for at the moment) doesn't turn up any indication of Arizona's policy for parole/early release, so I don't know when he's due to see the light of day. He also engaged in some sort of mortgage fraud in Tennessee, attempting to reclaim his mother's house from the people who legitimately purchased it, so he may have another trial ere long. I also checked the Arizona DOC database and he hasn't been processed yet, so I can 't find his assigned parole eligibility date.

Another one deservedly bites the dust. He must have scammed quite a few people at $3,000 a crack if he built a swimming pool in his yard and took multiple cruises with the proceeds. Vampires who prey on one of the most financially and emotionally devastating episodes in someone's life (losing their home) are among the lowest of human scum.

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/news/lak ... 40497.html
Lake Havasu man disrupts court as he's sentenced to prison
JIM SECKLER, The Daily News
Aug 26, 2018

KINGMAN — A Lake Havasu City man was sentenced to prison Friday after being convicted of 18 criminal counts.

Leighton Lionel Ward, 43, was convicted of two counts of fraudulent schemes and artifices, eight counts of forgery, four counts of preparing false documents for filing and one count of theft. He also was convicted of three misdemeanor counts of recording a false document.

Ward, who represented himself in the case, became disruptive in court as the judge spoke and waived his presence. He was taken to a neighboring jury room, where he could listen to the proceedings.

Ward’s advisory attorney, Jacob Chavez, asked for a mitigated sentence citing Ward’s lack of criminal history and support from his family, who attended Friday’s sentencing.

Ward continued to argue that no one had provided any facts or documents against him and that the court had violated his constitutional rights. He also called the judge and the prosecutor criminals from the jury room by way of an intercom.

“Mr. Ward, you are a criminal,” Superior Court Judge Rick Lambert said in response.

Chief Deputy Mohave County Attorney James Schoppmann asked the judge to consider statements from the victims, who were conned by Ward.

Schoppmann, in asking for the maximum sentence, said Ward did not show remorse and was a con man.

Lambert said that Ward abused his privileges by sending thousands of kites, written correspondence, to the judge. The kites contained graphs and strange writings.

The judge asked Ward what he did with the money entrusted to him by the victims. Lambert said it was flat out fraud what Ward did to the victims, who were in financial distress. Ward went on cruises, vacations and built a swimming pool at his home with the money.

Lambert sentenced Ward to 23 1/2 years in prison.

The fraud charges covered incidents occurring May 9, 2014, and March 28, 2016, in Lake Havasu City where Ward and his company, the Advocacy for Consumer Rights, received more than $3,000 to change the terms of a mortgage to get the victim a promised refund, using a made-up syntax.

The forgery charges stemmed from incidents in March 2016, November 2016 and February 2017 in Kingman and Lake Havasu City. The theft charge covered a May 2014 incident. The charges of preparing false documents for filing were for incidents in March 2016, November 2016 and February 2017 in Kingman.

The recording a false document incidents occurred in March 2016, November 2016 and February 2017 at the county recorder’s office in Kingman.

Ward claimed to be the clerk of the court with the Federal Postal Court, a fictious organization based on sovereign citizens doctrine.

Ward also reportedly faces possible charges in Tennessee, as well as federal charges from the U.S. Department of Justice.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6164

Post by mmmirele » Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:13 pm

Arizona only gives 15 percent off for good time. IOW, you have to serve 85 percent of your sentence.

But this is causing an overcrowding crisis in the prisons: http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/news/p ... 0d107.html



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6165

Post by Foggy » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:48 am



In my defense, I was left unsupervised.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6166

Post by realist » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:07 am

Foggy wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:48 am
:rotflmao:

Where’s tape 2? I need to pay off all my debts. :thumbs:


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6167

Post by Gregg » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:04 pm

So now you can watch How To videos about how to get your ass beat by a cop, your car towed and rack up a few thousand in fines. Great.


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6168

Post by Grumpy Old Guy » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:09 pm

Gregg wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:04 pm
So now you can watch How To videos about how to get your ass beat by a cop, your car towed and rack up a few thousand in fines. Great.
There is a how to video for many things, so why not a video on how to screw up your life?



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6169

Post by Foggy » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:17 pm

Maybe YOU don't want to know how to turn a simple traffic ticket into a felony with a prison sentence, but lots of people out there are very interested in learning! :dance:


In my defense, I was left unsupervised.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6170

Post by Siegfried Shrink » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:27 pm

Sov-cit 101 is of course a satire, or JOKE.

Admittedly there are plenty of serious ones or there would be nothing to satirise.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6171

Post by BoomerSooner17 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:11 pm

I love the fact that the caption says "the best way to resist arrest," because that's exactly what they will be charged with.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6172

Post by Sam the Centipede » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:44 am

:rotflmao: That's a fun video! :rotflmao:
I like the helpful introduction, where they they ask the question "what is a sovereign citizen?" they suggest looking at the etymology, which they helpfully (!) give:
Sovereign, Soveous - I can do
Citizen, Citious - whatever I want

while they explain the concept: Basically, it's living the life Jesus and George Washington wanted you to live.

I understand that people can be anti-police for all sorts of reasons, but I can't understand why sovcits think they're going to get away with driving around with fake plates, breaking laws, then sassing armed cops while refusing to show a license or exit the car. Well, I guess the reason is just that they are unbelievable stooopid.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6173

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:03 pm

Larky K' Chamcha wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:11 am
More on New California!

They have a website: https://newcaliforniastate.com/

It's quite odd: they clearly understand that they cannot make a federally recognized unilateral declaration of independence from California but they also appear not to want to engage with the democratic process or the legislature.

They try to sound mature and reasonable despite showing clear signs of being ill-educated, selfish, whining racists. But they lapse into sovcit ranting whenever their medication starts to wear off; here's an example:
New California pamphlet 3 wrote:The current state of California has become governed by a tyranny, which rivals those stated above. It is time to take action. The Duty of the People who are suffering the long train of abuses and usurpations at the hands of a tyrannical government is to abolish and make new a government by the People and for the people under GOD.
The New California pretend government nitwits are at it again. Here's a flyer for their next meeting. Not at a Denny's, surprisingly. They're selling tickets for "legislators" for $40, and they're selling tickets for "gallery" spectators at $45 each to watch the pretend legislators pass lots of pretend legislation and give lots of speeches about tranny. Wonder how many spectator tickets they'll sell.
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6174

Post by BoomerSooner17 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:27 pm

JohnPCapitalist wrote:Here's a flyer for their next meeting. Not at a Denny's, surprisingly.
Hey, now, show the pretend delegates some respect. They are continuing the great American tradition of holding momentous, history-changing meetings in the hotel by the local airport. :sarcasm:



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6175

Post by NotaPerson » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:52 pm

I pray there will be video.


Am I being detained?

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