Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

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Bushdoctor
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6076

Post by Bushdoctor » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:43 pm

Big SovCit operation in North Carolina. Fake Indian tribes, unlicensed police departments, casinos, etc.
https://www.wral.com/robeson-casinos-ra ... /17715724/
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scirreeve
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6077

Post by scirreeve » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:54 pm

Bushdoctor wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:43 pm
Big SovCit operation in North Carolina. Fake Indian tribes, unlicensed police departments, casinos, etc.
https://www.wral.com/robeson-casinos-ra ... 15724/[url]
I just missed it, I'll be driving through Lumberton in a couple of days. I couldn't get your link to work but this one does (at least for me).
https://www.wral.com/robeson-casinos-ra ... /17715724/



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Dan1100
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6078

Post by Dan1100 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:57 pm

Bushdoctor wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:43 pm
Big SovCit operation in North Carolina. Fake Indian tribes, unlicensed police departments, casinos, etc.
https://www.wral.com/robeson-casinos-ra ... 15724/[url]
Fixed link

https://www.wral.com/robeson-casinos-ra ... /17715724/

This is the Lumbee Indian area(actual Indians).

I've read about these guys before. They say they are the Tuscarora that didn't move from South Carolina to Upstate New York to join the Iroquois Confederation. Like a lot of the Cherokee "tribes" in Missouri and Arkansas, they might have started out with good intentions and may have actual Indian ancestors, but then scammers took them over.

Even by the usual standards, the white people in South Carolina were particularly evil toward the Tuscarora and sold many of them into slavery.


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6079

Post by mmmirele » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:59 pm

Kendall Locklear is very unhappy with being arrested.

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scirreeve
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6080

Post by scirreeve » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:30 am

Anyone know the address of the "casino". I'm driving from Wilmington to Charlotte Thurs. afternoon - might do a drive by if I know where it is.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6081

Post by mmmirele » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:34 am

scirreeve wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:30 am
Anyone know the address of the "casino". I'm driving from Wilmington to Charlotte Thurs. afternoon - might do a drive by if I know where it is.
There are three, and they are very rural. I looked up their locations and they're not obviously casinos:
The casinos were located at 1345 Modest Road in Maxton, 129 Nancy Lane in Pembroke and 1521 Opal Road in Red Springs.
From: http://www.fayobserver.com/news/2018072 ... 5-arrested

ETA: there's a podcast to the right of the article from the Fayetteville Observer, the first several minutes talk about this particular raid.



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scirreeve
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6082

Post by scirreeve » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:40 am

mmmirele wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:34 am
scirreeve wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:30 am
Anyone know the address of the "casino". I'm driving from Wilmington to Charlotte Thurs. afternoon - might do a drive by if I know where it is.
There are three, and they are very rural. I looked up their locations and they're not obviously casinos:
The casinos were located at 1345 Modest Road in Maxton, 129 Nancy Lane in Pembroke and 1521 Opal Road in Red Springs.
From: http://www.fayobserver.com/news/2018072 ... 5-arrested

ETA: there's a podcast to the right of the article from the Fayetteville Observer, the first several minutes talk about this particular raid.
Thanks - might take a look - I have that afternoon free except for the driving from here to there part. Not far out of my way.



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mmmirele
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6083

Post by mmmirele » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:46 am

scirreeve wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:40 am
mmmirele wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:34 am
scirreeve wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:30 am
Anyone know the address of the "casino". I'm driving from Wilmington to Charlotte Thurs. afternoon - might do a drive by if I know where it is.
There are three, and they are very rural. I looked up their locations and they're not obviously casinos:
The casinos were located at 1345 Modest Road in Maxton, 129 Nancy Lane in Pembroke and 1521 Opal Road in Red Springs.
From: http://www.fayobserver.com/news/2018072 ... 5-arrested

ETA: there's a podcast to the right of the article from the Fayetteville Observer, the first several minutes talk about this particular raid.
Thanks - might take a look - I have that afternoon free except for the driving from here to there part. Not far out of my way.
Do--the pictures on Google Maps are five years old. 1345 Modest Rd looks like a utility building and 1521 Opal Rd looks like a nice brick house.



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scirreeve
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6084

Post by scirreeve » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:10 am

I'm gonna do it. Pics Thursday night I hope.



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Notorial Dissent
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6085

Post by Notorial Dissent » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:47 am

Sovering Land is a new one on me. :rotflmao:


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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pipistrelle
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6086

Post by pipistrelle » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:54 am

"and are subject to our laws"
Do the air quotes mean that you're not subject to their laws?



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TheNewSaint
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6087

Post by TheNewSaint » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:26 am

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:47 am
Sovering Land is a new one on me. :rotflmao:
Clearly they didn't sover correctly. They should have sovered better.



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mmmirele
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6088

Post by mmmirele » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:04 am

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:47 am
Sovering Land is a new one on me. :rotflmao:
Wow, I know I read that sign several times and didn't see it! How embarrassing.



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TollandRCR
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6089

Post by TollandRCR » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:30 pm

The Lumbee people, among whom these SovCits live, do not need the aggravation. The State recognizes them as Indians, and Congress did something weak that did not result in federal recognition. Some recognized tribes question whether the Lumbee are Indians at all.

The Lumbee’s problem has been that locals suggest that they are the result of intermarriages of several small tribes in the region of the Lumbee River and emancipated slaves. The Indian population of North Carolina had been decimated by diseases of Europeans, leaving tribes likely to be accepting of amalgamations. Thus all the ancient racial prejudices work against the Lumbees.

The fact that they speak no Indian language is consistent with this origin explanation; they would have had a common language only in English. A serious problem with this explanation of their origins is that Lumbees were documented decades before the Civil War. However, the tribe may have accepted black members after Emancipation.

They have strong cultural traditions. Sugar probably knows their patchwork craft, based upon the cone of the long leaf pine. Homecoming brings many thousand Lumbees to Pembroke, NC for everything from ceremonies to parades, along with good food. As with most other Southern peoples, vegetables are prominent and numerous on their tables. Living near the ocean, seafood is common in their diet. You can get a collard sandwich (cornbread, collards, fatback, chow chow), fried spot (fish), or chicken bog (rice pilaf with whole chicken). Their communities are self-governing, and they run their own schools and churches. In this they are probably sustaining age-old Indian traditions. However, it was a battle in 1950s NC to regain these rights.

I think the SovCits need to leave Lumbee territory. I doubt that the Lumbees want their own casinos; most of them are solid Methodists. And they, as a people, are not tax cheats or thieves.


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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scirreeve
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6090

Post by scirreeve » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:53 pm

mmmirele wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:46 am
scirreeve wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:40 am
mmmirele wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:34 am


There are three, and they are very rural. I looked up their locations and they're not obviously casinos:



From: http://www.fayobserver.com/news/2018072 ... 5-arrested

ETA: there's a podcast to the right of the article from the Fayetteville Observer, the first several minutes talk about this particular raid.
Thanks - might take a look - I have that afternoon free except for the driving from here to there part. Not far out of my way.
Do--the pictures on Google Maps are five years old. 1345 Modest Rd looks like a utility building and 1521 Opal Rd looks like a nice brick house.
Thanks for the addresses.
I did that today. I'll type something up and post some pics but probably not until tomorrow. Just one quick comment. I went to the Pembroke location and it is obviously a casino - there are signs up saying "turn here to go to the casino". When I got there there was a TV reporter there (we were the only 2 there). She was practicing her segment before she taped it in front of the casino (which is in a house converted to a casino). I didn't want to scare her (we were at the end of a short dirt road so it was probably weird to her that some dude rolled up) so went up to her and told her what I was doing. She said the other side of the story was interesting and that she had just interviewed 5 of the Tuscarora folks. I asked her if she knew what a sovcit was and she said "no". I gave her a brief summary but I'm thinking that her segment will be sympathetic to the sovcits since she knows nothing about that. She has teased something on her twitter but I just looked at the station website and doesn't appear to be posted there yet. She also said that 5 locations were raided - I don't know where the other 2 are. More later. Here is her teaser.



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scirreeve
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6091

Post by scirreeve » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:54 am

I will make at least 3 posts - I went to 3 Tuscarora locations. Pembroke, Maxton, and Red Springs in that order.
PEMBROKE
This location is a casino - it is in a neighborhood, rural but several residences close by on lots of a couple of acres each I guess. The casino is at the end of a short dead end dirt road.
Is it a secret casino? Why no it is is not. Here is what you see as you leave the paved road for the dirt road. They want you to find it.
IMG_1296 (640x480).jpg
The casino is behind a gate. These signs are about 20 yards before you get to the gate.
IMG_1298 (640x480).jpg
Here is the reporter standing in front of the gate. I talked about her in a post yesterday.
IMG_1302 (640x480).jpg
The gate was maybe 50 yards in front of the casino - this is the best shot I could get.
IMG_1301 (640x480).jpg
More to come...
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scirreeve
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6092

Post by scirreeve » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:58 am

The reporter I met at the casino had been inside the gate earlier interviewing some of the Tuscarora folk. Here is her report. That flag they are holding was at all 3 locations I went to.
https://www.wbtw.com/news/state-regiona ... 1327135478



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scirreeve
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6093

Post by scirreeve » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:01 pm

MAXTON location
If you are interested the video in this story is worth watching - it has some shots of the Maxton location which I will refer to.
http://abc11.com/more-than-26-arrested- ... y/3813395/
The location: semi rural area but there are many houses - some just across the street. There is a church nearby and a huge Campbell Soup factory about a mile or so away.

The layout: there is a large compound on one side of the street - several hundred yards long. Several houses on it, a smokeshop, a swimming pool, and a bunch of out buildings. At one end is an electronic reader board that said "temporarily closed" when I was there. I didn't take a pic of it but it can be seen in the ABC11 video. This seems to be the Locklear family compound - on FB they call it "Buffalo Ranch" but I saw no signs calling it that. (broken link https:// www.facebook.com/pages/Buffalo-Ranch/278728702168861).

Across the street is a large wooded area. It is offset a bit from the "compound". Both ends of the wooded area are marked by their purple Tuscarora flags so I guess this is their property as well. Here is a pic of the flag at one end of the wooded area. This is the exact location of the police road block in the ABC11 video above. My guess is that this might be where the marijuana grow operation was but I don't know that for sure.
IMG_1306 (640x480).jpg
When I drove up there was a guy driving an old beater car in front of the smokeshop. I parked in front of one of the "sovering" signs and he hopped out of his car and just stared at me while I was there. I decided to just take a couple of pics from inside my car and get the heck out of there. I think it was one of the Locklear boys - Kendrick I think but am not sure (I got his name wrong in a post yesterday). https:// www.facebook.com/DaTxBoixKeN
Here is my shot of the "sovering" sign in front of the smoke ship - there are several signs that are all the same - posted about 50 yards apart.
IMG_1307 (640x480).jpg
Here is another sign with the purple flag that was everywhere - IDK what the red/yellow flag is.
IMG_1308 (640x480).jpg
There was a small outbuilding with posters all over it that said "Seneca" - I was to far away to read whatever else was on them in smaller font and didn't take a pic. I guess this is some reference to the Iroquois confederacy but don't know much about that. One more post to come about the Red Springs location.
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scirreeve
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6094

Post by scirreeve » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:07 pm

RED SPRINGS Tuscarora Nation location.

The final location I went to was a house about a mile or so outside of the small town of Red Springs. It is in an agricultural area (tobacco fields surround it). There are other houses fairly close - few hundred yards away.

It is a pretty nice house.
IMG_1324 (640x480).jpg
Nothing looks sovcit about it unlike the last 2 spots I visited. But wait, there are some small signs in front of the house. What do they say?
IMG_1310 (640x480).jpg
And there is a big structure next to the house with a sign in front of it. I bet you could run a casino in that structure. I also think that reader board might have had something about a casino on it before they were raided.
IMG_1312 (640x480).jpg
And this location also has the Tuscarora purple flag, the red and yellow flag, AND the United Nations flag in front of the casino.
IMG_1318 (640x480).jpg
This was the end of my sovcit scouting trip.
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6095

Post by RTH10260 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:34 pm

:thumbs:



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mmmirele
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6096

Post by mmmirele » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:39 pm

scirreeve, thanks so much for the on the spot reporting! It is greatly appreciated.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6097

Post by mmmirele » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:41 pm

From Twitter--looks like we have a live one rolling down the highway. How many sovereign citizen tropes can you identify?




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scirreeve
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6098

Post by scirreeve » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:46 pm

Took a look on street view at the Maxton location (smoke shop etc.). Street view date is May 2012 and the smokeshop, reader board, several outbuildings were not there at the time - the houses were. There was just one sign and one of the purple flags (blurred flag courtesy of Google, not me).
Capture.JPG
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Dan1100
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6099

Post by Dan1100 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:02 pm

The purple flag is the flag of the Iroquois Confederacy . They are real indians (mostly in upstate NY and Canada) and include the real Tuscarora tribe that immigrated from South Carolina to Upstate New York.

The middle red/orange flag seems to be either the flag of the Mohawk Indians (part of the Iroquois Confederation) or closely derived from it.

Like I said upthread, this probably started with good intentions by people who thought they were (and maybe really even were) descendants of the Tuscarora who didn't make it up to New York. Then the scammers got their hooks into them. Google "Missouri Cherokee" for several examples of the same thing.

edit: I don't necessarily put these guys into the same category as either the standard "sovereign citizens" or the "moorish sovereign citizens." They start out, probably misinformed, but with good intentions. They have pow wows (aka picnics), have meetings, maybe even buy a little land. They try to organize, maybe even try to file a petition to get recognized by the feds. Of course, they attract busy bodies, so they are kind of like property owners associations in that they spend an inordinate amount of time fighting among themselves. That's a very different background than typical "sovereign citizens."

Then, some of them, cross the line into becoming organized criminal entities. Scammers take them over. They start selling memberships to obvious white people, spouting sovereign citizenish BS, scamming investors, and in this case got as far as opening up casinos and their own police force.

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#6100

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:08 pm

Vegans? :shock:



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