Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

noblepa
Posts: 948
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: Bay Village, Ohio
Occupation: Network Engineer

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5801

Post by noblepa » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:08 am

Bill_G wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:33 am
Man who cites opposition to abortion for not paying taxes wins Round 1 in court
By Maxine Bernstein mbernstein@oregonian.com
The Oregonian/OregonLive

A federal judge has dismissed a felony tax evasion charge against a man who describes himself as a Christian who refuses to give money to the government to support abortion.

U.S. District Judge Michael W. Mosman ruled that the government's indictment failed to provide any evidence that Michael Bowman tried to conceal or mislead government officials by simply cashing his checks and keeping a low bank balance so tax collectors couldn't garnish his account to pay taxes.
I'm fine with him not paying taxes as long as he only uses private roads and paths to travel around. He should be cited with trespass, and theft of service every time he drives on a highway.

I'm also convinced the government is incapable of convicting a bologna sammich these days. Something has changed. The long arm of the law has gotten arthritic.
I seem to remember a couple of high-profile cases, back in the sixties, in which anti-Vietnam war protesters paid less than their full tax liability. The reduced it, pro rate, by the percentage of the federal budget that was being spent on the war. They also made no effort to hide their actions, but they did not refuse to pay ANY of the tax due. IIRC, the courts came down on them hard, saying, in effect that taxpayers have no right to, through their tax filings, to pick and choose how the government spends its revenue.

Did the guy in Oregon refuse to pay anything?

I thought that the Federal government already banned using Federal money to fund abortions, so it seems to me, that he has no legal leg to stand on.



User avatar
neeneko
Posts: 1213
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:08 am

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5802

Post by neeneko » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:14 am

noblepa wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:08 am
I thought that the Federal government already banned using Federal money to fund abortions, so it seems to me, that he has no legal leg to stand on.
For the moment his legal leg seems to be limited to claiming his actions were not deliberate attempts to avoid taxes.

If I understand the piece correctly, it sounds like his wages were being garnished, or at least had started to be garnished, so he changed how he was handling his pay so that money could not be automatically pulled out.

Which leads me to be a bit surprised at the judge since that really makes it sound like there was a penalty being in play and a change in behavior that resulted in that penalty not impacting him. So even if the action in and of itself is not illegal the context should have made it so.. kinda like how running down the street is perfectly legal but running down the street while being chased by a cop is not.



scirreeve
Posts: 1455
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:51 am

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5803

Post by scirreeve » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:40 pm

KC Massey was discussed above. Gary Hunt is getting angry with Texas poots because none of them want a terrorist to live with them.
There are a lot of patriot in the Northern Federal District of Texas. Many of them have talked big from the safety of the Internet. However, when the time comes that they can help somebody that has done what they can only talk about, they can't come forward and help Kevin "KC" Massey get back on his feet.
They are not even keyboard warriors, they are keyboard cowards.
Don't believe those who "got your six, because that creates risk of life -- when they can't even help a fellow patriot that has risked his life, lost almost four years of his, and needs a place to stay so that he can get back on his feet.
Granted, you will. have to find a place to tore your expensive guns, that you will probably never use, except to talk about and maybe some target practice, and even that is to much fr you to step forward and help KC out.
You ain't got nobodies six, except your own.
So, who has the guts to prove me wrong?
Get in touch with me and I will get you in touch with Massey. He needs to find a place in the next 15 days, when he is scheduled to leave the Halfway House.
This applies to some Texans, though others may want to think about what they would do if it was in their area.



User avatar
TheNewSaint
Posts: 1123
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:05 am

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5804

Post by TheNewSaint » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:07 am

scirreeve wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:40 pm
KC Massey was discussed above. Gary Hunt is getting angry with Texas poots because none of them want a terrorist to live with them.
In a way, he's right. Most of the pootriot crowd would never take things as far as Massey did. They are rightly put off by him, because they don't want to be implicated if he decides immigrant hunting season is on again.



User avatar
Fortinbras
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:08 am

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5805

Post by Fortinbras » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:12 am

To clarify for future readers, Kevin "KC" Massey was a leader of a Texas "militia" who was sent to prison for being a felon (burglary) in possession of a firearm.

https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/201 ... ced-prison



User avatar
Northland10
Posts: 6607
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:19 am
Location: Chicago area - North burbs

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5806

Post by Northland10 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:09 am

TheNewSaint wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:07 am
scirreeve wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:40 pm
KC Massey was discussed above. Gary Hunt is getting angry with Texas poots because none of them want a terrorist to live with them.
In a way, he's right. Most of the pootriot crowd would never take things as far as Massey did. They are rightly put off by him, because they don't want to be implicated if he decides immigrant hunting season is on again.
They are offended because the "take it from my cold, dead, hand" crowd won't put away their guns somewhere to help somebody who would not put away his guns (or ANFO ingredients).


North-land: of the family 10
UCC 1-106 Plural is Singular, Singular is Plural.

User avatar
NotaPerson
Posts: 2971
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 9:33 pm

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5807

Post by NotaPerson » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:54 am

When he appeared on that Blogtalk radio show a week ago, KC came across as such a charming and responsible individual. He literally shouted at the listeners, calling them do-nothing cowards and mixing it with lots of profanity. He then blathered some of the usual sovcit nonsense about the government being a corporation, and said some super nice things about Abe Lincoln.

I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want such a fine upstanding man living with them.


Am I being detained?

User avatar
Foggy
Posts: 26017
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Fogbow HQ
Occupation: Dick Tater

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5808

Post by Foggy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:35 am

Wait, I can't have MY guns in MY house if I take Mr. Massey in?

What if them Black Lives Matter hordes come for my daughter or sumpin'? Or summa them illegal immigrunts? No way, José! I'm a righteous Bible-thumpin' no-account poot, and I ain't given up mah guns for nobody.

:cussing:


Hopefully, this will blossom into a snowball.
WWG1WGA

User avatar
mmmirele
Posts: 2316
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:17 pm
Location: Xenu's Red Mountain Trap

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5809

Post by mmmirele » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:17 pm

Sovereign citizens in Hawai'i.

On this you have to read a little bit to get to the stuff we love, but the background is somewhat necessary.
Ian Lind: The Crazy Lease Fight Over Molokai Mule Rides

The family that has operated the Kaulapapa tours for decades is fighting eviction with claims based on long-discredited conspiracy theories.

:snippity:

What the public learned about the mule tour dispute through mainstream news reporting is that both sides in the lease dispute now claim to be the rightful owners of the land.

R.W. Meyer pointed to a long paper trail documenting its ownership of the land dating back into the 19th century, while Kalehua Sproat-Augustiro now says her family owns the “allodial title” tracing back to Royal Patents granted during the Hawaiian Kingdom.

:snippity:

It doesn’t take extensive research to determine the hundreds of pages of rambling documents filed by Sproat-Augustiro on behalf of herself and the family company over the past year are a crazy mishmash of legal mumbo jumbo and frivolous claims based on bizarre and long-discredited conspiracy theories that have no legal standing and have never been successful in court.

For example, take one document filed by Sproat-Augustiro in both state and federal courts last year. Its run-on title is a combination of buzzwords dear to those peddling discredited legal claims.
And of course it's the turgid copy and paste prose we've all come to know and love. And more sovereign citizen drama, albeit on the civil side.

It's not over yet.

http://www.civilbeat.org/2018/04/ian-li ... ule-rides/



User avatar
Northland10
Posts: 6607
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:19 am
Location: Chicago area - North burbs

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5810

Post by Northland10 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:08 pm

NotaPerson wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:54 am
When he appeared on that Blogtalk radio show a week ago, KC came across as such a charming and responsible individual. He literally shouted at the listeners, calling them do-nothing cowards and mixing it with lots of profanity. He then blathered some of the usual sovcit nonsense about the government being a corporation, and said some super nice things about Abe Lincoln.

I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want such a fine upstanding man living with them.
I remember listening to this guy on the Metra. He would call "friends" and demand they pick him up train station. When they said no, he would would yell at them with some choice language. After some of these calls, he complains to his companion (poor thing) that all these people are stupid and he does not know what their problem is.

Somebody must have missed the "how to ask nicely" lesson in nursery school.


North-land: of the family 10
UCC 1-106 Plural is Singular, Singular is Plural.

User avatar
Notorial Dissent
Posts: 9972
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5811

Post by Notorial Dissent » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:26 pm

Northland10 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:08 pm
NotaPerson wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:54 am
When he appeared on that Blogtalk radio show a week ago, KC came across as such a charming and responsible individual. He literally shouted at the listeners, calling them do-nothing cowards and mixing it with lots of profanity. He then blathered some of the usual sovcit nonsense about the government being a corporation, and said some super nice things about Abe Lincoln.

I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want such a fine upstanding man living with them.
I remember listening to this guy on the Metra. He would call "friends" and demand they pick him up train station. When they said no, he would would yell at them with some choice language. After some of these calls, he complains to his companion (poor thing) that all these people are stupid and he does not know what their problem is.

Somebody must have missed the "how to ask nicely" lesson in nursery school.
Nah, sounds like standard entitled poot behavior to me.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

User avatar
mmmirele
Posts: 2316
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:17 pm
Location: Xenu's Red Mountain Trap

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5812

Post by mmmirele » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:07 am

Another accused criminal attempting to use sovereign citizen nuttery to get out of very serious charges:
A man accused of setting a deadly fire more than 17 years ago at a Near West Side liquor store stood in court Tuesday to face a charge of first-degree murder more than four years after a warrant was issued for his arrest in the case.

Lemanuel Jackson, 46, appeared at the Leighton Criminal Courthouse for a bail hearing dressed in a sweater and beige pants. He declared himself a sovereign citizen — a group that believes that although they live in the United States they are separate from the government’s authority — and asked to be allowed represent himself, despite Judge Michael Clancy’s advice against doing so.

“I’m a free sovereign,” Jackson said in his only statement. “I don’t consent to these proceedings.”

Clancy ordered Jackson held without bail and he was led away.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/?post_type ... &p=1040966



User avatar
RTH10260
Posts: 16453
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Near the Swiss Alps

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5813

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:21 pm

Down under, New Zealand, a guy spouting SovCit words and likely quoting stuff that relates to the US SovCit laws...




User avatar
RTH10260
Posts: 16453
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Near the Swiss Alps

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5814

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:33 pm

and a moronish Moorish story with window smashed




User avatar
mmmirele
Posts: 2316
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:17 pm
Location: Xenu's Red Mountain Trap

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5815

Post by mmmirele » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:16 am

Here's a sovereign citizen who is lucky he wasn't aerated by the cops. Perhaps because of his skin color?
A man identifying as a sovereign citizen resisted arrest during a traffic stop and attempted to reach for a gun, a news release from Slidell police says.

According to the release, officers initiated a traffic stop after observing a green Ford Ranger driven by James Doyle Webb violating several traffic laws on Fremaux Avenue.

Webb, 54, 5129 1st Ave. D, Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, ignored the officers’ request to see his driver’s license, registration and insurance, instead asking for the officers’ names and badge numbers, the release says.

After providing their names and badge numbers, the release says, the officers again requested to see Webb’s documents, which he again refused to produce. Webb instead took out a small notepad and wrote he was a “free traveler," and not required to give the officers any information because they did not have legal authority over him.
And yes, he did have a gun.

http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/ ... 3d1eb.html



Dave at Sea
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:48 am
Location: Sand Sun Surf
Occupation: Busy

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5816

Post by Dave at Sea » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:45 pm

More on the tin pot dictators - otherwise known as Constitutional Sheriffs..

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... e-sheriffs



User avatar
Volkonski
Posts: 16747
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Texas Gulf Coast and North Fork of Long Island
Occupation: Retired Mechanical Engineer

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5817

Post by Volkonski » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:53 pm

Police: Co-worker said Waffle House suspect claimed to be 'sovereign citizen'

http://www.kcra.com/article/police-co-w ... n/20054831
One of Reinking's former co-workers told Martellaro that Reinking had identified himself as an anti-government "sovereign citizen" who also disliked the National Rifle Association. The FBI says sovereign citizens believe they are separate from the U.S. and don't have to answer to any government authority, including courts and law enforcement.

Martellaro said the former co-worker left him with the impression that Reinking's interest in the sovereign citizen movement was part of his "delusional makeup."

:snippity:

Last July, Reinking was arrested by the U.S. Secret Service after he entered a restricted area near the White House and refused to leave, saying he wanted to meet President Donald Trump.

The suspect told Washington, D.C., police he was a sovereign citizen and had a right to inspect the grounds, according to an incident report.


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

User avatar
Volkonski
Posts: 16747
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Texas Gulf Coast and North Fork of Long Island
Occupation: Retired Mechanical Engineer

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5818

Post by Volkonski » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:20 am

Hey, Maybe These ‘Sovereign Citizens’ Might Be, You Know, Dangerous?

https://wonkette.com/632985/hey-maybe-t ... IkxiYtc.99
In March, another black SovCit, Melody Gray Domonique Crayton, was arrested after trying to shoot a cop in the head when he stopped to check on her and a passenger after their car slid into a freeway median during a snowstorm. Once the officer noticed the car didn’t have license plates, he ran a check on its VIN number and discovered it was stolen, which seems like a real violation of the one thing SovCits claim to value above all else, the sanctity of private property. The cop wasn’t injured, but he shot Ms. Crayton in the arm; she’s charged with attempted murder.

:snippity:

In November 2017, Brandon Flowers — an Indiana man who was not the lead singer for The Killers — was shot by police after stabbing a woman in a domestic dispute; Flowers had a long list of run-ins with the law, which usually involved his refusal to acknowledge the police had any authority over him. Flowers later died of his injuries.


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

Siegfried Shrink
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:00 pm

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5819

Post by Siegfried Shrink » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:12 am

Flowers later died of his injuries.



User avatar
mmmirele
Posts: 2316
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:17 pm
Location: Xenu's Red Mountain Trap

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5820

Post by mmmirele » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:52 pm

BRICK, NJ — He calls himself "Without Prejudice" and says he is a sovereign citizen. But a Brick Township man is finding that holds no weight with local authorities after he was arrested Friday morning on fraud charges, the Ocean County Prosecutor's Office said.

Karl P. Scheufler, 47, of Brick, was arrested at 6:30 a.m. Friday by Detectives James Conroy and Stephen T. Shadiack Jr. of the Economic Crimes Unit of the prosecutor's office.

:snippity:

He is accused of filing a false Uniform Commercial Code financing statement against individuals as a retaliation over theft claims by the victims, said Al Della Fave, spokesman for the prosecutor's office. The Uniform Commercial Code financing statement is a lien, Della Fave said, and the victims contacted the prosecutor's office about the issue.

Scheufler, who said he holds himself as a sovereign citizen known as "Iesus: the Christ, an irrevocable trust" and declares his current name to be "Without Prejudice," was charged with third-degree falsifying government records, Della Fave said.
https://patch.com/new-jersey/brick/lien ... gn-citizen



Siegfried Shrink
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:00 pm

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5821

Post by Siegfried Shrink » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:59 am

It is a bit extra-judicial, but the first state that rounds up a decent size crowd of these people and puts them in a zoo like environment will have a great visitor attraction. They could act out travelling in their coveyances, posturing in court, ranting to video, all the enrichment activity the most humane zoo could provide, and possibly attract enough visitor admission funds to pay for their own upkeep, replacing their probable present government subsidy with a nett profit for the state.



User avatar
GlimDropper
Posts: 1320
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:35 pm

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5822

Post by GlimDropper » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:42 pm

A hat tip to BMXNinja over at the Q for bringing this channel to my attention.

A Cop Snarks on Sovs (and other topics):




User avatar
ArthurWankspittle
Posts: 1227
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5823

Post by ArthurWankspittle » Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:53 pm

GlimDropper wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:42 pm
A hat tip to BMXNinja over at the Q for bringing this channel to my attention.

A Cop Snarks on Sovs (and other topics):

Ah yes, Donut Operator (without his moustache). Also worth watching him and Angry Cops playing SovCit bingo.


Going to Tibet now and deleting Facebook you have my email address.

User avatar
mmmirele
Posts: 2316
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:17 pm
Location: Xenu's Red Mountain Trap

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5824

Post by mmmirele » Wed May 02, 2018 9:50 am

Sovereign citizen in Aspen, with a history:
A former Aspen resident who took part in a notorious 1999 crime spree that rattled locals now says he's a "sovereign citizen" and should not have to face consequences for a DUI he received late last year.
It's the usual arglebargle with pushback from the prosecutor, except this is something I have not seen before:
"That would be a non-executable warrant," Schutter said, before asking for an "admiralty lawyer."

"This is not an admiralty court," Fernandez-Ely said.

"It's a common law court?" Schutter asked.

"I don't know the language you're using," the judge said.
More of the same except there's a note that the judge wrote an 11 page memo about sovereign citizens. That I would like to see.

https://www.aspentimes.com/news/crime/m ... n-defense/



User avatar
RoadScholar
Posts: 6859
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:25 am
Location: Baltimore
Occupation: Historic Restoration Woodworker
Contact:

Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5825

Post by RoadScholar » Wed May 02, 2018 9:55 am

"I don't know the language you're using" should be the universal response to these types.

Yay Judge!


The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.
X3

Post Reply

Return to “Sovereign Citizens, Private Militias, and Citizen Grand Juries”