Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

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TollandRCR
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Post by TollandRCR » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:17 pm

TFB has a number of threads that deal with directly or indirectly with aspects of the Sovereign Citizen movement, including [link]RAP-Restore America Plan,viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4054[/link][link]Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona,viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5215[/link][link]FBI thwarts terrorist bombing in Portland OR,viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5084[/link][link]The Secret World of Extreme Militias,viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4860[/link][link]Keith Thompson--A Canadian Sovereign,viewtopic.php?f=55&t=4908[/link][link]SPLC "Meet the Patriots",viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3929&p=134561&hilit=kk2009#p134456[/link][link]THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS 2009 – CHICAGO November 8th to 22nd,viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2441&hilit=kk2009#p66623[/link]However, TFB does not have a general thread on the Sovereign Citizen Movement (PJ had several). I believe that when historians look back on this weird period in American history, they will consider the Birthers to have been comical bit players in an attempt to change the nature of American government. The principal actors are the Sovereign Citizen Movement and their allies among White Nationalists, neo-Nazi groups, Dominionists, and Reconstructionists. The ADL has a useful article under Extremism in America, [link]Sovereign Citizen Movement,http://www.adl.org/Learn/ext_us/SCM.asp ... 4&item=sov[/link]. SPLC also has a good historical treatment, [link]Return of the Sovereigns: Resurgence of Far-Right Movement Reported,http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... sovereigns[/link]. Wikipedia has [link]Sovereign Citizen Movement,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement[/link] and [link]Redemption Movement,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemption_movement[/link]. [link]The RAP farce is fundamentally a variant of the Sovereign Citizen Movement,http://www.republicoftheunitedstates.org/[/link].We have followed the story of the Kanes, Schaeffer Cox, and the [link]Atlanta 12,http://www.policeone.com/federal-law-en ... -Citizens/[/link]. We've seen Sovereigns in other countries, including [link]Brian Leonard Golightly Marshall,viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5047&p=186489&hili ... ly#p186489[/link]. One thing that I had missed was that the Sovereign Citizen Movement has expanded to encompass African-American groups, as in [link]Memphis,http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-sovereign ... 4512.story[/link] and with the [link]Nuwaubians,http://www.ajc.com/news/dekalb/12-sover ... 73458.html[/link]. I had not paid sufficient attention to the link between the Sovereign Citizen Movement and the [link]Zeitgeist Movement,http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/[/link], which seems to have infected Jared Loughner. There has been frequent mention of the Sovereign Citizen Movement in the far right media, as well as on sites for law enforcement, [link]"Police Worry About Sovereign Citizen Movement, SPLC Reports",http://www.securitymanagement.com/news/ ... rts-008287[/link].If nothing else, this thread will provide me a single place in which to post new information about this radical and violent movement. It would be great for others to join me.
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Post by BFB » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:21 pm

I believe that when historians look back on this weird period in American history, they will consider the Birthers to have been comical bit players in an attempt to change the nature of American government. The principal actors are the Sovereign Citizen Movement and their allies among White Nationalists, neo-Nazi groups, Dominionists, and Reconstructionists.I agree. Scratch many Birthers, and you'll find a sovereign, IMO.

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Post by everalm » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:37 pm

For many birthers Sovvie Citizen seems to be a reinforcing fall back particlualerly when they find themselves in trouble with the law.Teresa Cao is a perfect recent example, nothing I could quickly find (cursory I admit) in her previous weird and wonderful squeals had anything linked to Sovvie foolishness. Then she gets in court and emerges as a blown full "in esse" with all the relevant nonsense in her court filings.I have however seen a fairly strong link with chem trailers/FEMA campers etc such as fester over at Dr K(H)ates with Sovvieness and the Pest and Fail posters have a strong whiff of this particular breed of insanity.

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Post by kate520 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:25 pm

Yesterday was my step-mom's 80th birthday. I'm here in Avila with my very liberal and unusually well-informed family. Only my sister's boyfriend has any knowledge of birthers, but when i described them as a subset of sovereigns, they all nodded sagely.
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Post by SueDB » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:30 pm

Yesterday was my step-mom's 80th birthday. I'm here in Avila with my very liberal and unusually well-informed family. Only my sister's boyfriend has any knowledge of birthers, but when i described them as a subset of sovereigns, they all nodded sagely.I found Dr. Pitcavage's site in the late 90's. It has tons of information on the various groups and activity of the 80's/90's. These Sovereign Nuts have been roasting a long long time.





He stopped adding to the webpage set in 2000, but there is a bunch of Admiralty Court crap deconstructed. It is part of the ADL set as (IRR) Dr. Pitcavage went to work for them. I do remember he studied the far right and the militias as the subject of his Doctoral Thesis. I would tend to consider him a "good authority" on the subject.








[/break1]adl.org/mwd/default.asp]Militia Watch Dog (2000) Dr. Mark Pitcavage





[/break1]adl.org/mwd/common.asp]Common Law and Common Court Law Movement
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Post by A Legal Lohengrin » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:13 pm

[/break1]adl.org/mwd/default.asp]Militia Watch Dog (2000) Dr. Mark Pitcavage[/break1]adl.org/mwd/common.asp]Common Law and Common Court Law MovementThis is a great site for any students of the bad craziness known as the sovereign citizen movement or the "militias," which also aren't real militias, but instead packs of armed buffoons.My favorite resource, which I have certainly mentioned here before, is the [/break1]adl.org/mwd/suss1.asp]Idiot Legal Arguments hornbook.

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Post by SueDB » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:27 pm

[/break1]adl.org/mwd/default.asp]Militia Watch Dog (2000) Dr. Mark Pitcavage[/break1]adl.org/mwd/common.asp]Common Law and Common Court Law MovementThis is a great site for any students of the bad craziness known as the sovereign citizen movement or the "militias," which also aren't real militias, but instead packs of armed buffoons.My favorite resource, which I have certainly mentioned here before, is the [/break1]adl.org/mwd/suss1.asp]Idiot Legal Arguments hornbook.I love that - it lays it all out quite well and is very understandable...I was trying to link that page before my laptop crapped out - reset - but took me a while. -xx -xx
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Post by kate520 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:52 pm

This is from the nuisance forms section of the Idiots guide Loh linked above:US v. Barbara Olson (10th Cir unpub 4/14/92) 961 F2d 221(t)(punished as a false statement and a fraudulent claim, 18 USC 287 & 1001); (punished as obstructing the administration of the tax laws, 26 USC 7212, and malicious intent presumed from the filing of the false 1099 formsIs this, do you think, the same Barbara Olsen who was married to Ted Olsen, both members of the federalist society, the same Barbara who perished on 9/11? And, if so, what exactly does this mean? A member of the Federalist Society playing sovvie games? it's frightening to that the Solicitor General was actually a sovereign, if that's the case.
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Post by ducktape » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:05 pm

This is from the nuisance forms section of the Idiots guide Loh linked above:US v. Barbara Olson (10th Cir unpub 4/14/92) 961 F2d 221(t)(punished as a false statement and a fraudulent claim, 18 USC 287 & 1001); (punished as obstructing the administration of the tax laws, 26 USC 7212, and malicious intent presumed from the filing of the false 1099 formsIs this, do you think, the same Barbara Olsen who was married to Ted Olsen, both members of the federalist society, the same Barbara who perished on 9/11?I doubt it (Olson, as opposed to Olsen), and I really doubt this would be the direction of a Federalist Society member -- they're more into taking over the country and eliminating the tax laws they don't like.However, while I was looking through that material, it occurred to me to look up my mom's first cousin who she had told me was a tax protester (never met him myself, or had the desire, despite his living in the same area), and sure enough, found the ruling against him by the CA Board of Equalization. The ruling noted his claim not to be a "taxpayer" with something that I would summarize as "oh, please, not that shit again. You lose. Next?"

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Post by TollandRCR » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:54 pm

This is from the nuisance forms section of the Idiots guide Loh linked above:





US v. Barbara Olson (10th Cir unpub 4/14/92) 961 F2d 221(t)(punished as a false statement and a fraudulent claim, 18 USC 287 & 1001); (punished as obstructing the administration of the tax laws, 26 USC 7212, and malicious intent presumed from the filing of the false 1099 formsIs this, do you think, the same Barbara Olsen who was married to Ted Olsen, both members of the federalist society, the same Barbara who perished on 9/11?I doubt it (Olson, as opposed to Olsen), and I really doubt this would be the direction of a Federalist Society member -- they're more into taking over the country and eliminating the tax laws they don't like.Barbara Olson was married to Theodore Olson, and the cited case involved one Barbara Olson. The name was not Olsen. However, I agree: this is not a Federalist Society idea. It is possible that the same Barbara Olson changed into a Federalist Society member; the case was in 1992, and she married Ted Olson in 1996.
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Post by MaineSkeptic » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:16 pm

It is possible that the same Barbara Olson changed into a Federalist Society member; the case was in 1992, and she married Ted Olson in 1996.But wouldn't she have been Barbara Kay Bracher in 1992?

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Post by Foggy » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:06 am

For many birthers Sovvie Citizen seems to be a reinforcing fall back ...True. I think Neil Turner would have shrunk from Sovereign Citizen rhetoric before 2008. Speculation, of course.
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Post by TollandRCR » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:50 am

It is possible that the same Barbara Olson changed into a Federalist Society member; the case was in 1992, and she married Ted Olson in 1996.But wouldn't she have been Barbara Kay Bracher in 1992?Yes. Mystery solved: not same person.
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Post by SueDB » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:54 am

It is possible that the same Barbara Olson changed into a Federalist Society member; the case was in 1992, and she married Ted Olson in 1996.But wouldn't she have been Barbara Kay Bracher in 1992?Yes. Mystery solved: not same person.Now that sounds like a well thought out conclusion. I kinda missed that too at first. You just seem to glide right over it.
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Post by twinx » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:06 pm

On a personal note, my nephew has just updated his FB page to say this:NOTICE TO SOUTH YORKSHIRE POLICE . i abide by the common law of the land and do not consent to your jurisdiction, in commercial statute law, (the law of the sea) or any contract you may belive exists, with the fictional charictor named on a birth certificate. :shock:

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Post by SueDB » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:09 pm

On a personal note, my nephew has just updated his FB page to say this:NOTICE TO SOUTH YORKSHIRE POLICE . i abide by the common law of the land and do not consent to your jurisdiction, in commercial statute law, (the law of the sea) or any contract you may belive exists, with the fictional charictor named on a birth certificate. :shock:My, Oh My...You could let him know he has 2 words misspelled. The mispellings plus the tone of the statement...he apparently has some "issues". Is it time for an Intervention? This could be a lifelong battle against stupidity.
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Post by Princess foofypants » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:11 pm

On a personal note, my nephew has just updated his FB page to say this:NOTICE TO SOUTH YORKSHIRE POLICE . i abide by the common law of the land and do not consent to your jurisdiction, in commercial statute law, (the law of the sea) or any contract you may belive exists, with the fictional charictor named on a birth certificate. :shock:Alrighty then. Also, I'm glad to see that other countries place the same stress on spelling as we do, though when I attended Cambridge, they seemed to spell very, very well... in more languages than one.

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Post by SueDB » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:23 pm

On a personal note, my nephew has just updated his FB page to say this:NOTICE TO SOUTH YORKSHIRE POLICE . i abide by the common law of the land and do not consent to your jurisdiction, in commercial statute law, (the law of the sea) or any contract you may belive exists, with the fictional charictor named on a birth certificate. :shock:Alrighty then. Also, I'm glad to see that other countries place the same stress on spelling as we do, though when I attended Cambridge, they seemed to spell very, very well... in more languages than one.UK, eh? I wonder what the Queen has to say about this... :lol:
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Post by SueDB » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:25 pm

These guys get all worked up over crap, then find out the other side has bigger and many more guns.Ooooopsie...
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Post by SueDB » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:27 pm

On a personal note, my nephew has just updated his FB page to say this:NOTICE TO SOUTH YORKSHIRE POLICE . i abide by the common law of the land and do not consent to your jurisdiction, in commercial statute law, (the law of the sea) or any contract you may belive exists, with the fictional charictor named on a birth certificate. :shock:I had an ancestor from Scotland that said that - next thing - he found himself in York, Virginia...early 1717 or so...working on a tobacco plantation.
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Post by twinx » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:31 pm

My, Oh My...You could let him know he has 2 words misspelled. The mispellings plus the tone of the statement...he apparently has some "issues". Is it time for an Intervention? This could be a lifelong battle against stupidity.I'm afraid this one doesn't have a lot of respect for me since I scoffed at his 9/11 'truthing', but I had no idea there were British Sov Cits until recently when some earlier posts of his alerted me.I raised some concerns with my sis a few months ago. She was prepared to admit that he was 'getting involved in some odd things' (as she put it), but she's one of those Mother Tiger types who has never stood for any criticism of her children. Her other 3 kids are great but this one has always been...different.I'll be paying a little more attention to the UK Sov Cits from now on.Sorry for the threadjack.

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Post by Princess foofypants » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:50 pm

On a personal note, my nephew has just updated his FB page to say this:NOTICE TO SOUTH YORKSHIRE POLICE . i abide by the common law of the land and do not consent to your jurisdiction, in commercial statute law, (the law of the sea) or any contract you may belive exists, with the fictional charictor named on a birth certificate. :shock:Alrighty then. Also, I'm glad to see that other countries place the same stress on spelling as we do, though when I attended Cambridge, they seemed to spell very, very well... in more languages than one.UK, eh? I wonder what the Queen has to say about this... :lol:Kind of "Queen" related, this morning I got a call that my caller id said was Prince William. It is a darn same that is the name of a Virginia county and it wasn't the Princeling. :(

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Post by Whatever4 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:38 pm

Kind of "Queen" related, this morning I got a call that my caller id said was Prince William. It is a darn same that is the name of a Virginia county and it wasn't the Princeling. :(Hoping he'll come to his senses before April 29? :mrgreen:
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Post by SueDB » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:42 pm

My, Oh My...You could let him know he has 2 words misspelled. The mispellings plus the tone of the statement...he apparently has some "issues". Is it time for an Intervention? This could be a lifelong battle against stupidity.I'm afraid this one doesn't have a lot of respect for me since I scoffed at his 9/11 'truthing', but I had no idea there were British Sov Cits until recently when some earlier posts of his alerted me.I raised some concerns with my sis a few months ago. She was prepared to admit that he was 'getting involved in some odd things' (as she put it), but she's one of those Mother Tiger types who has never stood for any criticism of her children. Her other 3 kids are great but this one has always been...different.I'll be paying a little more attention to the UK Sov Cits from now on.Sorry for the threadjack.Threadjack??? my friend...we ARE discussing the Sov Cits - there isn't a country specified for this thread...I would say you are spot on - target...
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Post by mimi » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:21 pm

This guy minted his own silver coins for use as U.S. currency. Convicted! The post says he minted coins worth over $7 million. They featured the face of Ron Paul!!! :P Von NotHaus developed the liberty dollar in 1998 as an "inflation-proof" alternative currency to the U.S. dollar, which he claimed has devalued since the Federal Reserve was established in 1913.The silver medallions were produced by a private mint in Idaho on behalf of Evansville-based Liberty Services, which also issued paper notes the group said were backed by silver reserves.During the raid, about a dozen agents seized nearly two tons of coins that featured the image of Ron Paul, a Texas congressman. They also took about 500 pounds of silver and 40 to 50 ounces of gold, as was paper currency and other metals.The 2007 raid was a development in a dispute between von NotHaus and the U.S. government. In a federal suit filed in March 2007 in U.S. District Court in Evansville, von NotHaus sought a permanent injunction against the federal government to force it to stop referring to the Liberty Dollar as an illegal currency and to require the removal of a warning from the U.S. Mint's website stating that use of the Liberty Dollar violates federal law.more...[/break1]courierpress.com/news/2011/mar/19/local-liberty-dollar-architect-found-guilty/]http://www.courierpress.com/news/2011/m ... nd-guilty/MoJo covered this, and has an illustration of the Ron Paul Dollar.Ron Paul Coin Minter, Pot Priest, Faces 15 Years in Prison— By Tim Murphy| Mon Mar. 21, 2011 6:52 AM PDThttp://mjcdn.motherjones.com/preset_16/ron-paul-dollar_web.jpg :P In 2007, federal authorities raided Von NotHaus' Liberty Dollars headquarters in Evansville, and confiscated more than 2 tons of copper, silver, and gold coins. Von NotHaus had made no secret of his ambition, telling a Spokane newspaper, "we're going to be to the Federal Reserve System what Federal Express was to the Postal Service." Since 2009, lawmakers in at least 14 states have introduced legislation to require or encourage state governments to accept payment in gold or silver. In Utah, for instance, a proposed bill would permit citizens to operate their own private mints.Since the raid, as the Southern Poverty Law Center notes, Von NotHaus has retired from the currency business to found the Free Marijuana Church of Honolulu, where he's a "high priest." He's currently working on a book, tentatively titled, One Toke to God—Two Tokes to Party. Von NotHaus faces up to 15 years in prison.[/break1]com/mojo/2011/03/maker-gold-ron-paul-currency-goes-prison]http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/03/mak ... oes-prison
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"One Toke Over The Line" was a Top 10 hit in 1971, and was largely responsible for introducing Brewer & Shipley to the masses. While it is a wonderful and uplifting song, "One Toke" landed Brewer & Shipley on Nixon's Enemies List and was banned by the FCC. But that didn't stop [link]Lawrence Welk from featuring "One Toke Over The Line" on his show,
[/link]. Several artists recorded the song in 1971, apparently thinking it was a gospel song. Check out these stories and even a video of the legendary Lawrence Welk cover. As Michael & Tom like to say, you couldn't make this stuff up.
There are a bunch of videos of and about Von NotHaus from the past several years of this fight.

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