Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

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neeneko
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5676

Post by neeneko » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:39 pm

Fortinbras wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:39 pm
With reference to civilians filming police, sometimes this sort of filming is actually "casing the joint". I have found at least one court case that supported the police in shooing away people who were filming the interior and/or exterior of the police station (which, of course, included the lockup) because such photography could be used to plot an attack on the police station (either to kill policemen or free/lynch a prisoner); similarly with filming a bank and a jewelry store.
Was this a case where the people were actually filming with that intent, or just that the court agreed it could be used that way?

I can recall a few years back (esp post 9-11) police were really cracking down on photographers (esp middle eastern looking ones) taking pictures of anything that could be considered 'sensitive'.



Siegfried Shrink
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5677

Post by Siegfried Shrink » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:43 pm

In general the average nut job You Tube video gets views in the low thousands and you can bank on a million for the better funny cat video. Even niche interests like model railways or collecting scrap metal gets views in the hundred thousands.

I think the only way you'd get rid of the dark underbelly is to kill and bury the beast.



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Suranis
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5678

Post by Suranis » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:11 pm

I would think that someones "right to film" would end at the police station. It depends what law would give someone the right to film and how it would be worded, however.

Rights, in general, are granted by something, not existent because you want to do something or that you simply exist. People have been way too free with the word "right" to claim all sorts of things simply becasue they feel that it is moral that they should have them, and that has had the side effect of giving the Sov cit lingo legitimacy.


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JohnPCapitalist
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5679

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:13 pm

DejaMoo wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:10 pm
OTOH, there are a lot of poor folks driving uninsured beaters either because they can't get insurance, or they can't afford the insurance, but still need a way to get around.

It seems that much of this sovcit rebellion is fuelled by simple financial desperation - can't afford to make the payments? Guess what - you don't have to! And people buy into it because they really don't have any other option when it comes to trying to hold onto what little they have, instead of losing it and sinking even further into poverty.
Think about this: you're working at Wal-Mart making $9 an hour. They're probably giving you 35 hours a week if you're "full time" so they don't have to give you insurance at 40 hours. So you're bringing home probably $1,000 a month. Even if you live way out in the middle of nowhere, it's hard to make it on that. A single person probably couldn't live in their own place on that.

If you've got to drive to get to work, the cost of license, registration, potentially personal property taxes and insurance can add up to a lot. Around here (a high cost NE US state) that would be $100-$120 a month, or about 10% to 15% of your paycheck. And it's easy for someone to conclude that this particular expenditure doesn't benefit them directly the way a dollar spent on food, rent, gas money, etc. would. And it's probably the only expense they can actually cut.

So it seems pretty natural that the scammers preaching financial freedom would pick this as the first place to try to promise a miracle financial cure. Of course, the problem is that getting caught with the trifecta of no insurance, no license and no registration, particularly if you have outstanding warrants for other bad behavior, makes the downstream cost to dig out from getting arrested to be quite significant.

One side effect of this situation where people put the fake plates on their car and attract attention is that the cops in some small towns might take pity on someone who's so marginal and let them off even if they know they're breaking the law. So when they get pulled over and let go, they think this nonsense actually "works," not that they're getting a lucky break on compassionate grounds.

In jurisdictions with license plate recognition scanners on the cars, dash cams and in-car laptops, cops don't have a lot of discretion about what to do. These are typically wealthy suburbs or larger cities. Once the ALPR systems are rigged up to detect the verbiage like "no license required" it is an easy software mod to alert patrol management in the police department that they've got a sovereign citizen and there's no discretion. A couple years ago my son's tags expired and he got stopped by a cop in a town with automated license plate readers. The cop told him that when the system lights up with expired tags, he no longer had the discretion to do anything about it -- he had to issue the citation and tow the car because there was a report from the ALPR system that got matched against the citations that were ultimately written. That may also be a reason why the incidence of poots trying to get away with this in the suburbs is pretty low. You have to be out in the sticks to have any chance of pulling this off even for a little while.



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boots
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5680

Post by boots » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:29 pm

DejaMoo wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:19 pm
Unilever to Facebook and Google: Clean up 'swamp' or we'll pull ads
Unilever is threatening to pull its advertising from digital platforms that it says have become a "swamp" of fake news, racism, sexism and extremism.

The forceful warning to digital platforms such as Google (GOOGL) and Facebook (FB) will be delivered at an advertising conference in California later on Monday.

Weed will say that a proliferation of objectionable content on social media -- and a lack of protections for children -- is eroding social trust, harming users and undermining democracies.
"This is not something that can brushed aside or ignored," he will say in the speech.

Unilever would no longer advertise on platforms that create divisions in society or fail to protect young people.
This is great news. I hope there is a movement to influence this beyond just Uniever.



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TheNewSaint
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5681

Post by TheNewSaint » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:30 pm

Fortinbras wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:39 pm
I have found at least one court case that supported the police in shooing away people who were filming the interior and/or exterior of the police station

By a similar token, there was a civil lawsuit some years ago by some plainclothes and undercover police when some publisher, supposedly under contract to the police dept, churned out a sort of police department yearbook that included photos of the faces of these undercover cops, thereby negating their effectiveness and putting them at great risk.
I think those are fundamentally different scenarios. In the first, you're talking about filming in a quasi-private place, a police station. The second is about researching publishing information, rather than simply recording something as it happens. I don't think either case has much overlap with someone passively recording a live incident in a public place.



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Fortinbras
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5682

Post by Fortinbras » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:38 pm

Back to what to call the people selling the bogus license plates.

"Conmen" doesn't seem strong enough. These crooks aren't just selling empty boxes, they are selling boxes that will explode in the face of the purchasers - that will get their customers into really deep trouble. In some cases they have even assured their customers that boxes are entirely risk-free and totally law-abiding, so, yes, they are suckering in some honest people. And the crooks are operating virtually scot-free.

There has to be some word that specifically describes rattlesnakes like this.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5683

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:02 pm

Fortinbras wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:38 pm
Back to what to call the people selling the bogus license plates.

"Conmen" doesn't seem strong enough. These crooks aren't just selling empty boxes, they are selling boxes that will explode in the face of the purchasers - that will get their customers into really deep trouble. In some cases they have even assured their customers that boxes are entirely risk-free and totally law-abiding, so, yes, they are suckering in some honest people. And the crooks are operating virtually scot-free.

There has to be some word that specifically describes rattlesnakes like this.
Unfortunately, while these people are preying on the poor and uneducated, so too are companies like the financial institutions that bleed people dry with transaction fees on payroll debit cards, payroll lending at usurious rates, car title loans (like pawnshops for cars), etc. The same word applies there.



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boots
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5684

Post by boots » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:04 pm

A good number of the people who buy these fake plates are the ones who can least afford to attract attention to themselves by law enforcement.



Domenico
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5685

Post by Domenico » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:04 pm

Fortinbras wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:38 pm
Back to what to call the people selling the bogus license plates.

:snippity:

There has to be some word that specifically describes rattlesnakes like this.
How about "rattlesnake"?



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5686

Post by BoomerSooner17 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:05 pm

How about 'sleazebag'?



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5687

Post by scirreeve » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:23 pm

Here is a weird thing I came across by accident. Others might know about this but I don't. "Kingdom of Manna" in New Guinea - total sovcit nonsense. King Jesper would probably disagree with me.
https://www.kingdomofmanna.com
The now deleted wiki page (with a warning about being subject to speedy deletion which evidently happened).

https://www.sdwiki.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Manna



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neeneko
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5688

Post by neeneko » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:01 am

scirreeve wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:23 pm
Here is a weird thing I came across by accident. Others might know about this but I don't. "Kingdom of Manna" in New Guinea - total sovcit nonsense. King Jesper would probably disagree with me.
https://www.kingdomofmanna.com
The now deleted wiki page (with a warning about being subject to speedy deletion which evidently happened).

https://www.sdwiki.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Manna
Wow. Now there is a horrible rabbit hole.

I esp love their claims that they have no geopolitical agenda, but are working to dismantle all the invalid jewish controlled governments. World domination isn't an agenda?

I am trying to figure out exactly what it 'is', outside some white american, probably in LA, claiming to now own a large section of Papua New Guinea and is building some shining city there.



Vee
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5689

Post by Vee » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:38 am

Came across this. I'm no attorney but maybe you guys can make sense of it?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5690

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:13 am

JohnPCapitalist wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:02 pm
Fortinbras wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:38 pm
Back to what to call the people selling the bogus license plates.

"Conmen" doesn't seem strong enough. These crooks aren't just selling empty boxes, they are selling boxes that will explode in the face of the purchasers - that will get their customers into really deep trouble. In some cases they have even assured their customers that boxes are entirely risk-free and totally law-abiding, so, yes, they are suckering in some honest people. And the crooks are operating virtually scot-free.

There has to be some word that specifically describes rattlesnakes like this.
Unfortunately, while these people are preying on the poor and uneducated, so too are companies like the financial institutions that bleed people dry with transaction fees on payroll debit cards, payroll lending at usurious rates, car title loans (like pawnshops for cars), etc. The same word applies there.
I would add the "miracle cure" hucksters to this list, too. Anyone who could, and does, convince desperate people to drink bleach deserves a place on the dishonor roll of conmen.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5691

Post by Lani » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:32 am

There are several sovereign citizen movements in Hawaii, but they are different from the mainland. Yes, there are refusals to have driver licenses, etc., but they are based upon the very real overthrow of the government in 1893.

I found this while looking into sovcits in Hawaii tonight.
Edmund Keli'i Silva Jr., who many in Hawaii recognize as king, announced a $2.5bn (£1.6bn) plan to reorganize and restore the Kingdom of Hawaii and published the Constitution of the Kingdom of Hawaii on October 27, 2003.[54] According to Eugene Bai of Russia Direct, In late September 2015 at the Moscow President Hotel in Russia, a 2 million rubles conference was organized by a Kremlin endowment for military-patriotic activities set up by Russian President Vladimir Putin. The conference was for separatist movements around the world including Northern Ireland’s nationalist republican party. Four days before the conference, Lanny Sinkin, representing an "Independent Sovereign State of Hawaii" and Edmund Keli'i Silva Jr. received his invitation and funding for the trip to Moscow. He and the Hawaiian contingency were well received.[55]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiia ... y_movement


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neeneko
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5692

Post by neeneko » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:14 am

Lani wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:32 am
There are several sovereign citizen movements in Hawaii, but they are different from the mainland. Yes, there are refusals to have driver licenses, etc., but they are based upon the very real overthrow of the government in 1893.
Even I have to admit, I would love to see a legal case where someone made the argument that the Fed broke some treaty it signed and thus some block of territory revered to some pre-imperial owner.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5693

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:57 am

Once again, the crazy turns ugly. A sheriff's deputy in Georgia was killed and two other deputies were wounded in a shootout with someone they were serving an eviction notice on. This person was spouting SovCit nonsense to the cops before the shooting.

Link here: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/henry-c ... /698635689

The county involved is Henry County,immediately southeast of Atlanta. Former pretend chief marshal Tresa Haywood lives in a town in that county. Not implying she's involved, knew the suspect or anything else, but it makes me wonder how much SovCit nonsense is out there in that area.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5694

Post by Northland10 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:11 am

neeneko wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:14 am
Lani wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:32 am
There are several sovereign citizen movements in Hawaii, but they are different from the mainland. Yes, there are refusals to have driver licenses, etc., but they are based upon the very real overthrow of the government in 1893.
Even I have to admit, I would love to see a legal case where someone made the argument that the Fed broke some treaty it signed and thus some block of territory revered to some pre-imperial owner.
Maybe something like giving 160 acres in Bunkerville back to the Southern Utes, the ones with the original water rights.


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5695

Post by RoadScholar » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:31 am

Did you say "Utes?"


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5696

Post by Volkonski » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:17 am


JJ MacNab

@jjmacnab

Tax protester couple sentenced to prison for hiding money from bankruptcy court
http://www.
roanoke.com/news/crime/chr
istiansburg/christiansburg-pair-headed-to-prison-for-financial-crimes/article_17875e57-be77-5f8d-bf48-f0e2f04569f3.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share
… via @roanoketimes
8:35 AM - Feb 13, 2018
Regan Dwayne Reedy, 56, was sentenced Friday in Abingdon federal court to nine years for tax and bankruptcy fraud. Co-defendant Susan Annette Reedy, 56, also of Christiansburg, was sentenced to six and a half years, court records show.

Each was fined $125,000.

A jury convicted Regan Reedy and Susan Reedy last year of financial crimes, including hiding assets from a bankruptcy judge.

Regan Reedy, whose alias was Wegani Diweini Klandag Anisahoni, and Susan Reedy, who also went by Susani Aneti Anisahoni, attacked the charges in lengthy filings that quoted biblical scripture and arcane authorities. One filing said the United States was a British colony, that Britain was owned by the Vatican and that the pope could abolish any American law. The Reedy filings professed an enduring belief in Jesus Christ, and the two acted as their own lawyers.


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5697

Post by BigSkip » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:45 am

JohnPCapitalist wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:57 am
Once again, the crazy turns ugly. A sheriff's deputy in Georgia was killed and two other deputies were wounded in a shootout with someone they were serving an eviction notice on. This person was spouting SovCit nonsense to the cops before the shooting.

Link here: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/henry-c ... /698635689

The county involved is Henry County,immediately southeast of Atlanta. Former pretend chief marshal Tresa Haywood lives in a town in that county. Not implying she's involved, knew the suspect or anything else, but it makes me wonder how much SovCit nonsense is out there in that area.
A fair amount. Lightworker34 also has set up shop not far from there, and based on comments on her YT channel a lot of her supporters are around the metro ATL area.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5698

Post by GlimDropper » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:24 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:17 am


Regan Dwayne Reedy, 56, was sentenced Friday in Abingdon federal court to nine years for tax and bankruptcy fraud. Co-defendant Susan Annette Reedy, 56, also of Christiansburg, was sentenced to six and a half years, court records show.

Each was fined $125,000.

A jury convicted Regan Reedy and Susan Reedy last year of financial crimes, including hiding assets from a bankruptcy judge.

Regan Reedy, whose alias was Wegani Diweini Klandag Anisahoni, and Susan Reedy, who also went by Susani Aneti Anisahoni, attacked the charges in lengthy filings that quoted biblical scripture and arcane authorities. One filing said the United States was a British colony, that Britain was owned by the Vatican and that the pope could abolish any American law. The Reedy filings professed an enduring belief in Jesus Christ, and the two acted as their own lawyers.
Gee, I wonder if that's the same Regan Dwayne Reedy who was one of the original Guardian Elders of The Restore America Plan prior to Tim Turner's great purge which left him the last Elder standing and default Interim President of the Republic for the uNited States.

Nah, I don't wonder. Actually at this point is there a single Guardian Elder who hasn't done time?



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5699

Post by Whip » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:00 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:31 am
Did you say "Utes?"
Image



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5700

Post by Dan1100 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:27 pm

neeneko wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:14 am
Lani wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:32 am
There are several sovereign citizen movements in Hawaii, but they are different from the mainland. Yes, there are refusals to have driver licenses, etc., but they are based upon the very real overthrow of the government in 1893.
Even I have to admit, I would love to see a legal case where someone made the argument that the Fed broke some treaty it signed and thus some block of territory revered to some pre-imperial owner.
The Iroquois tried that. Simplifying greatly, the Iroquois said that the only treaties they had were with NY state and the Constitution says states can't make treaties, so give us back upstate NY. Court said that they were right, but we screwed you over a long time ago and you waited too long to file, so no soup for you.


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