Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

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Notorial Dissent
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5601

Post by Notorial Dissent » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:12 pm

Foggy wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:03 pm
Notorial Dissent wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:08 pm
They're both dumb as a box of rocks.

I strenuously disagree. :fingerwag:

They are each as dumb as half a box of rocks. :dance:

No, I refuse to apologize to boxes of rocks. :nope:
I stands corrected and concur.

I keep thinking no one can be that dumb, and then they just keep on proving me wrong. :rotflmao:

If Vrooman got sent to jail, it is a dead bang certainty that it was for more than just no license.


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Northland10
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5602

Post by Northland10 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:31 pm

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:12 pm
I keep thinking no one can be that dumb, and then they just keep on proving me wrong. :rotflmao:
We keep wondering how why they continue to do the same failing things as if this final time it will work, but I guess I'm no better. I keep thinking they can't be this dumb, and I keep being proven wrong.


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5603

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:06 pm

Northland10 wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:31 pm
Notorial Dissent wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:12 pm
I keep thinking no one can be that dumb, and then they just keep on proving me wrong. :rotflmao:
We keep wondering how why they continue to do the same failing things as if this final time it will work, but I guess I'm no better. I keep thinking they can't be this dumb, and I keep being proven wrong.
Sure, stupidity and ignorance is part of it. But a big part of it is also that they're in a sort of fundamentalist cult, but one that believes that their own interpretation of the law is the sacred text. The problem with fundamentalist religions is that if you believe the sacred text is perfect and inerrant, then you have what I call the "fundamentalist trap."

Normally when you try a solution to a problem that doesn't work, your alternatives are:
  • Do something different.
  • Do what you did again, except better.
  • Do more of what you did.
Fundies can't do "different" because that would mean that the inerrant text is no longer inerrant... and the infallibility of the text is the main reason to believe. Fundies can't do "better" because the text is already perfect by definition. So they can only do "more". And to paraphrase Bill Wilson, founder of AA, "the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

So the combination of stupidity and fundamentalist cult-like thinking means they will keep doing what didn't work for a ludicrously long time. Maybe forever. And when their only news comes from similar believers they might as well be in Scientology as far as being able to get out and start to relate to the real world.



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Foggy
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5604

Post by Foggy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:15 am

What JPC said. :thumbs:


The point of no return is no longer even visible in your rearview mirror. :-

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arayder
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5605

Post by arayder » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:53 am

JohnPCapitalist wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:06 pm

Sure, stupidity and ignorance is part of it. But a big part of it is also that they're in a sort of fundamentalist cult, but one that believes that their own interpretation of the law is the sacred text. The problem with fundamentalist religions is that if you believe the sacred text is perfect and inerrant, then you have what I call the "fundamentalist trap."

Normally when you try a solution to a problem that doesn't work, your alternatives are:
  • Do something different.
  • Do what you did again, except better.
  • Do more of what you did.
Fundies can't do "different" because that would mean that the inerrant text is no longer inerrant... and the infallibility of the text is the main reason to believe. Fundies can't do "better" because the text is already perfect by definition. So they can only do "more". And to paraphrase Bill Wilson, founder of AA, "the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

So the combination of stupidity and fundamentalist cult-like thinking means they will keep doing what didn't work for a ludicrously long time. Maybe forever. And when their only news comes from similar believers they might as well be in Scientology as far as being able to get out and start to relate to the real world.
And those of us who try to point out them that their methods aren't working and that they have the law all wrong are labeled as all sorts of trolls and government agents.

There used to be a few places on the internet where sovcit/freemen types used to interact with their debunkers. But, it seems to me they have walled themselves off from the general public in recent years thus adding to their isolation and cult like behavior.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5606

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:05 pm

Umm... good?


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5607

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:50 pm

arayder wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:53 am
And those of us who try to point out them that their methods aren't working and that they have the law all wrong are labeled as all sorts of trolls and government agents.

There used to be a few places on the internet where sovcit/freemen types used to interact with their debunkers. But, it seems to me they have walled themselves off from the general public in recent years thus adding to their isolation and cult like behavior.
Labeling the opposition as infiltrators, especially those with seeming super-powers like government agents (guns, unlimited budgets, private jets, access to the secrets of all the UFO's they've captured since Roswell) is classic cult tactics.

And of course the way you know someone is a completely cooked cult devotee is when they start doing the mind control themselves, withdrawing themselves from anyone with a dissenting view. When your flock has become complicit in their own brainwashing, you have won.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5608

Post by Gregg » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:16 pm

JohnPCapitalist wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:50 pm
And of course the way you know someone is a completely cooked cult devotee is when they start doing the mind control themselves, withdrawing themselves from anyone with a dissenting view. When your flock has become complicit in their own brainwashing, you have won.
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5609

Post by arayder » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:30 pm

JohnPCapitalist wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:50 pm
Labeling the opposition as infiltrators, especially those with seeming super-powers like government agents (guns, unlimited budgets, private jets, access to the secrets of all the UFO's they've captured since Roswell) is classic cult tactics.

And of course the way you know someone is a completely cooked cult devotee is when they start doing the mind control themselves, withdrawing themselves from anyone with a dissenting view. When your flock has become complicit in their own brainwashing, you have won.
There’s a line an an old Jimmy Stewart western in which the stalwart Stewart has been falsely jailed in a town he’s “passing through” charged with stabbing to death a bar rat who had menaced him earlier in the evening.

As he’s being questioned through the jail cell bars by the sheriff Stewart’s character says, “So you think I came all the way from Laramie just to stab the town drunk?”

Similarly, the sovcit/freeman cult is convinced that traffic court judges are maintaining the new world order by convicting them of drunk driving, or failing to have a license, registration and insurance.

The cult seems convinced that an international Jewish banking conspiracy will rise and fall on their wife beating charges.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5610

Post by Finlay » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:52 am

Things are not going well for Rocky Hutson.

A Grand Junction man is facing up to 30 years in prison after a federal jury found him guilty of multiple fraud-related charges Thursday evening.
...
Hutson's conviction on all counts followed a midtrial ruling by U.S. District Judge Marcia Krieger that he could not use as a shield the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

Carbondale-based defense attorney Ashley Petrey said in an interview Friday her client's beliefs are sincere, if "odd and unpopular."

"He truly believes these theories about the United States government, and he does treat it like his religion," Petrey said. "It's very intertwined with God and who created man. … He should be entitled to practice those beliefs."

Krieger ruled that Hutson's beliefs about the corruption of the U.S. government — while sincere — weren't religious.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5611

Post by scirreeve » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:58 am

No idea where to post this and I don't pay much attention to this thread - anyway there is now a "New California". Sorry if posted in the wrong place.
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/720c6a ... _88440.pdf



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5612

Post by Larky K' Chamcha » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:42 am

scirreeve wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:58 am
No idea where to post this and I don't pay much attention to this thread - anyway there is now a "New California". Sorry if posted in the wrong place.
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/720c6a ... _88440.pdf
CBS's Sacramento affiliate was there and has a report:New California Declares Independence From Rest Of State. The "declaration of independence" has all the usual sovcit cargo cult signatures in in its pompous mimicking of style, its screeching about a republican form of government, its calls to their God, its obsession with not wanting to pay taxes, its general "you're not the boss of me"ishness.

I'm never clear on what sovcits are trying to say when they claim that the US has (or should have) be a republic, not a democracy, but it usually seems to reduce to a hatred of the Democratic Party and its supporters. Perhaps what they mean is that they alone are "we teh peepul" and should govern, regardless of how small a minority they are.

In short, it's about saying self-appointed white rural folk should run the show, oh, and give us your money!



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5613

Post by Larky K' Chamcha » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:11 am

More on New California!

They have a website: https://newcaliforniastate.com/

It's quite odd: they clearly understand that they cannot make a federally recognized unilateral declaration of independence from California but they also appear not to want to engage with the democratic process or the legislature.

They try to sound mature and reasonable despite showing clear signs of being ill-educated, selfish, whining racists. But they lapse into sovcit ranting whenever their medication starts to wear off; here's an example:
New California pamphlet 3 wrote:The current state of California has become governed by a tyranny, which rivals those stated above. It is time to take action. The Duty of the People who are suffering the long train of abuses and usurpations at the hands of a tyrannical government is to abolish and make new a government by the People and for the people under GOD.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5614

Post by Siegfried Shrink » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:14 am

If they are so keen on god, why not leave it to him, her or it to sort things out?



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5615

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:22 am

Such delicate snowflakes. If they ever experienced actual tyranny they’d soil their armor.


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5616

Post by neeneko » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:22 am

Larky K' Chamcha wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:42 am
In short, it's about saying self-appointed white rural folk should run the show, oh, and give us your money!
I suspect they picture that 'new california' will get all the water rights and rule the urban areas with that, while if they did gain statehood control of the water would probably be strictly laid out ahead of time.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5617

Post by Gregg » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:28 am

In short, it's about saying self-appointed white rural folk should run the show, oh, and give us your money!
And yet they manage to square that circle by supporting a Billionaire who is robbing them blind on behalf of the 1%.


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5618

Post by neeneko » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:35 am

Gregg wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:28 am
And yet they manage to square that circle by supporting a Billionaire who is robbing them blind on behalf of the 1%.
A white billionaire. That makes it ok.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5619

Post by NotaPerson » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:44 am

Larky K' Chamcha wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:11 am
More on New California!

They have a website: https://newcaliforniastate.com/
And as always, it's poorly designed and an outright assault on one's eyes.


Am I being detained?

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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5620

Post by bob » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:37 pm

It is a weird division, to boot. (Menlo Park in Old California but Palo Alto in New California? :roll: )


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5621

Post by BigSkip » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:45 pm

www.760kfmb.com/story/37280070/woman-wh ... not-guilty

SAN DIEGO (NEWS 8) —A woman accused of leading San Diego police on a slow-speed pursuit pleaded not guilty Tuesday to felony evading and misdemeanor counts of resisting officers.

The defendant refused to confirm her date of birth for Judge Maureen Hallahan, saying she was willing to "contract" with the judge if shown an injured party. Daniels also refused to sign an acknowledgment of rights form, prompting the judge to verbally read the defendant her rights.



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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5622

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:50 pm

My read of the map suggests that "New California" would still be a blue state. Don't know about the rest of you, but I'd be good with another couple of Senate seats.


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5623

Post by ZekeB » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:52 pm

San Diego would be bound over to the poots? I don't think so.


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bob
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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5624

Post by bob » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:23 pm

Mikedunford wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:50 pm
My read of the map suggests that "New California" would still be a blue state. Don't know about the rest of you, but I'd be good with another couple of Senate seats.
"New California" would be, at a minimum, hella purple. ("Old California" would be deep blue.)


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Re: Sovereign Citizens and Related Nutz

#5625

Post by boots » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:24 pm

It's always a little ironic when an African American starts spouting sov bull straight from the canon, given the racially insensitive roots of that whole thing.



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