Just some guy wrote:All rights are created by humans?
Just some guy wrote:That's a strange concept, who else supports this notion?
Friedrich Nietzsche. Iain MacSaorsa. Bob Seidensticker. Others. Why?
Just some guy wrote:So if alone all my life, at 18 years old, I am attacked by a bear, I have to wait for other humans to arrive before I can defend myself?
You will probably need those other people, because one on one you have little chance. As I said before, humans are remarkably capable as a community, and essentially helpless as individuals. The bear will likely eat you anyway.
But to the actual point, if you want to pretend that defending yourself is a "natural right" as opposed to simply a natural capacity, then you have a problem. After all, from that perspective, the bear's "right" to eat you is exactly as valid as your "right" to defend yourself. There is no moral, ethical, legal or philosophical superiority of one "right" over the other, and the conflict between them is mediated entirely by violence. This is where the concept of natural rights is shown to be incoherent. These circumstances of actual nature, when translated to the situations of human interaction, cannot establish your "natural right" to defend yourself without simultaneously establishing every other human being's "natural right" to attack and kill you for any reason they so choose.
Just some guy wrote:A voicebox gives me the right to speak, which human invented that? How about my legs used in my freedom to travel, who invented those?
Your voicebox gives you the capacity
to speak. Your legs give you the capacity
to travel. Both have limits. Either can be taken from you by injury or disease. Neither is naturally afforded to everybody.
If speaking is a "natural right" why is it that nature also creates humans without the capacity? Are persons born with physiological muteness less human? Do they have fewer "rights" than persons who can speak? Does a person born crippled by spina bifida
have fewer "rights" than a person born with an intact spine? And if either of these things are "natural rights" must we conclude that the natural loss of such capacities due to stroke or accident is somehow a violation of "natural rights"?
Back to the bear... if you have a "natural right" to speak or travel, then I must necessarily have the "natural right" to prevent you from speaking or traveling... because while nature may provide us with capacities, it does not provide us with any moral distinction between exercising such a capacity or denying its exercise.
Just some guy wrote:Alone all my life, walking along I spot a shiny rock, but I can not pick it up and put it in my pouch because I know no other humans and therefore have no right to property.
You can pick up whatever you are capable of picking up. And I can take from you whatever I am capable of taking from you. And ultimately, when we both are dead, the shiny rock will take its place again laying on or in the ground. "Property" is a fascinating concept. But it is by every objective measure only a temporary one, and like all other "rights" can only be enforced by a community consensus backed by coercive force.
Maybe the bear does not want to eat you. Maybe the bear only wants to take your shiny rock. Tell be again how "property" is a natural right? Exactly?
Just some guy wrote:yeah bro, that all makes sense man, cool frickin story broski.
Must be... you have to this point offered no actual argument against it?
Just some guy wrote:Yeah, I can see you are the top pick of the litter around these parts.
The capacity (or even the "right") to defend yourself from the bear requires you to exercise it, or it is pointless and futile. The capacity (or even the "right") to defend your position requires you to actually try and defend it. I have notice that your pattern with me is to ask whiny rhetorical questions, call names, and then run away. And sadly, I an one of the few in the thread actually respecting your arguments with straightforward responses.
You appear no better prepared to defend yourself from me than you are that bear.
"Hell, I would wear a dress and ruby red slippers all year if we can prove this" - Mike Zullo