Vogt affidavit

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Sterngard Friegen
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Vogt affidavit

#176

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:20 am

gsgs is a computer program that almost passes the Turing test. But there is never any real conversation with the program. It never responds to our questions. And whoever put the programming together left out format.



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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
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#177

Post by Dr. Kenneth Noisewater » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:22 am

gsgs is a computer program that almost passes the Turing test. But there is never any real conversation with the program. It never responds to our questions. And whoever put the programming together left out format.Reminds me of an old chat bot I had installed on my forum. I ended up having to relegate it to a single thread as it nearly took over.



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#178

Post by Reality Check » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:34 am

gsgs is a computer program that almost passes the Turing test. But there is never any real conversation with the program. It never responds to our questions. And whoever put the programming together left out format.You are close Stern. My guess is it is aSekrit Stuffs!


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Vogt affidavit

#179

Post by Foggy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:49 pm

We know exactly where the certified copy of the birth certificate on the White House server came from:Loretta Fuddy, the Director of the Hawaii Dept. of Health, personally directed the copying of two copies of his original birth certificate. She said, "I have seen the original records filed at the Department of Health and attest to the authenticity of the certified copies the department provided to the President that further prove the fact that he was born in Hawai'i." [link]Link,https://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/ ... 042711.pdf[/link]."Director Fuddy personally witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the copies." Then the president's attorney, Judith Corley, flew from Hawai'i to Washington, D.C. with the two certified copies.Then a staffer at the White House put one of those copies on a Xerox Workcentre Model 7655 copier, scanned it to PDF and emailed it to him- or herself. Then that staffer opened it on a Mac in the software application Preview, rotated it 180°, and uploaded it to the server. Today, the government of Hawaii says: "On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth. For information go to [/break1]whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate]http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/ ... ertificate. [link]Link,https://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/faq-obama/[/link].Further, the government of Hawaii issued a verification saying that all the information on the birth certificate is accurate. [link]Link,http://thefogbow.com/public/pdf/Onaka_v ... ssippi.pdf[/link]The PDF on the White House server is a digital copy of President Obama's authentic, certified, original birth certificate.If gsgs doubts that, he's a birther. If gsgs is focusing on the Vogt affidavit or the Zullo affidavit or any other affidavit in order to avoid simply admitting the truth, he's a birther.Nothing in any liar's affidavit is going to change the facts. Gsgs is just trying to see if he can help the birthers prove their lies, but he can't.


Mr. William L. Bryan is the root of a great deal of criminal mischief. And yet, Mr. Bryan remains at large.

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Vogt affidavit

#180

Post by gsgs » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:49 pm

wrt. Vogt's 18th point of forgery, Vogt page 64, Arduini page 35-36the problem is not the bound volume and the unflat placement on the scanner.Vogt gives 3 lines where he sees the problem, 2 of them are due to the curvaturein the 12-jpg=AP, but the 3rd line cannot be resolved.We must assume (IMO) that the typist indeed changed the vertical alignment withinthat line 7a-7b-7c. As he/she obviously also did in line 2.If we assume that the form was not parallel in the typewriter to the formlinesthen we get _2_ other problems instead with the other 2 lines, so this doesn't help.Arduini didn't catch this.Vogt assumes that the stupid forger typed within the alignment of the typewriter ignoringthe lines in the form. But she did consider this problem in other lines, so this doesn'tmake sense either.(I can no longer view my pictures in this thread nor do I even have the filenames.I refound this one just by the posted date)[18],p64,i64same problem as with Monckton, see the Monckton-thread.They use the obf-jpg or the 12-jpg, which presumably is not a scanbut involves a lens which gives a slight curvature.The attached picture shows the same for the wh-pdf and compares itwith the obf-jpg and figure 64 in Vogt's affidavit.The problem disappears in the wh-pdf in line 8 and line 10 and the effectis smaller, but still there, in line 7a-7c , where the left-right distance betweenthe 2 chosen words is bigger.The "problem" is that the distance from the typed text to the black line in the form belowthat text increases a bit from left to right.I'm not sure yet, why this is, maybe there is still some curvature in the wh-pdfmaybe the form was not inserted exactly enoughor maybe they changed the vertical alignment while typing (unlikely,IMO, the effect is too small)



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Vogt affidavit

#181

Post by verbalobe » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:52 pm

Vogt assumes that the stupid forger typed within the alignment of the typewriter ignoring


the lines in the form President of the United States is a criminal.FIFY



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#182

Post by Joseph Robidoux III » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:09 pm

I'm stymied as to how to get through to gsgs as well.Odds are you won't.All I've really got left is pointing out his shortcomings and hoping it will eventually annoy him enough that he addresses my comments to get me to stop. I don't really expect it to work, but sometimes the horse learns how to sing*.You're dealing with someone who continues to discuss a legal issue (validity of state documents) without learning/understanding/applying knowledge of US federal and state law. If he should decide to change course and discuss anything that really matters it'll be apparent from the comments of others. I may join the discussion at that time; otherwise, it's a waste of time. I actually miss the old days (2008-2010) when I engaged birthers on another forum. I checked that forum today and there's only 1 birther left. The only one remaining is the idiot who claimed to be more knowledgeable about Constitutional law than every judge who ruled on any birther case or any attorney who argued in front of that judge. This clown would inevitably stray off topic and it would become obvious he slept through most of 9th grade civics years ago.
Edit: It took a few minutes locating the One & Only Birth Certificate thread in Hannityland. Someone moved it from "Washington Politics" to "Trivial Pursuits". The Trivial Pursuits subforum is identified as "For those of you tired of things that really matter." Seems like the proper location for birther bullsh*t.



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Vogt affidavit

#183

Post by gsgs » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:10 pm

Sam,RC,Slarti,Verbayes, given the history Arduini was the favourit and Vogt the outsiderbut did you really expect a 20:0 ?Some of Vogt's points are probably valid and indicate unusual unexpectedunexplained things in the documents or workflow.Maybe even more than in another random birth certificate.How much that indicates forgery is very likely exaggerated byVogt, given his bias and history and Hawaii's confirmationand the absurdity of a silly forger and all the other evidence.-----------------------------the polls do somehow reflect what I see in other forums.It is a movement, people talk about it, although notthe top politicians and reporters



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#184

Post by verbalobe » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:25 pm

the polls do somehow reflect what I see in other forums.It is a movement, people talk about it, although notthe top politicians and reportersWhat is the significance of this, in your mind?I know why it interests me. Why does it interest you?



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#185

Post by BillTheCat » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:37 pm

Some of Vogt's points are probably valid and indicate unusual unexpected...and there you have it. :roll:


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Vogt affidavit

#186

Post by realist » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:46 pm

How much that indicates forgery is very likely exaggerated byVogt,We know exactly how much forgery is indicated on the pdf.... ZERO!!!Read above (Foggy's most recent... and there are many more) for how we know without going through any of the "exercise" you appear to be going through... whatever that is, cuz it's certainly not apparent what the heck you are doing... or even attempting to do.gsgs... If I take a photograph of the Mona Lisa can you tell whether the original is a forgery from it? Just curious.


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#187

Post by Foggy » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:41 pm

Some of Vogt's points are probably valid and indicate unusual unexpectedunexplained things in the documents or workflow.Bullshit. Why are you writing such incredibly stupid statements? Are you retarded?


Mr. William L. Bryan is the root of a great deal of criminal mischief. And yet, Mr. Bryan remains at large.

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Vogt affidavit

#188

Post by Epectitus » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:37 pm

I assumed that Eppy could quickly assess whether there might be merit to it, and either investigate further or ignore. If gsgs is right, it's an easy fix and a nice refinement of the argument.I have had gsgs on ignore for a while. If he has something constructive to say, someone else will have to bring it to my attention.


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Vogt affidavit

#189

Post by Slartibartfast » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:38 pm

Joe Ruby,You're right, of course.Foggy,I think he is a naive teenager.gsgs,Did I expect all of Vogt's 20 claims to be demonstrably false? Yes, I did---after all, he claims that they support a demonstrably false (not to mention completely ridiculous) theory, namely that the pdf of the LFBC posted on the White House web site was created by a human rather than a scan of a physical document. How do I know this? There is no possible "theory of the crime" (i.e. a hypothesis of how and why the LFBC was "electronically forged") which cannot be falsified. In other words, any scientific theory that comes to the same conclusion as Vogt is dead on arrival. Since Vogt is essentially claiming 20 "experiments" that support a theory we know to be false, it is a foregone conclusion that every single one of them is the result of faulty methodology, misunderstanding of the facts, or fallacious reasoning. Sticking to the bias engendered by your false equivalences in the face of facts and reasoning that you are apparently unwilling to even acknowledge, let alone have the capability of refuting is both asinine and dishonest.


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#190

Post by Slartibartfast » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:42 pm

I assumed that Eppy could quickly assess whether there might be merit to it, and either investigate further or ignore. If gsgs is right, it's an easy fix and a nice refinement of the argument.I have had gsgs on ignore for a while. If he has something constructive to say, someone else will have to bring it to my attention.He suggested that you were wrong on one of your points, but as he neither offered an alternate theory nor an empirical methodology that would demonstrate your error, I doubt it is worth your while to follow up. If he actually does the work to support his argument, I'm sure someone will mention it to you.


"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
---Sun Tzu (quoting Thomas Jefferson)
nam-myoho-renge-kyo---Thomas Jefferson (quoting Slartibartfast)

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Vogt affidavit

#191

Post by Sam the Centipede » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:35 pm

We know exactly where the certified copy of the birth certificate on the White House server came from:...The PDF on the White House server is a digital copy of President Obama's authentic, certified, original birth certificate.[highlight]If gsgs doubts that, he's a birther.[/highlight] If gsgs is focusing on the Vogt affidavit or the Zullo affidavit or any other affidavit in order to avoid simply admitting the truth, he's a birther.Nothing in any liar's affidavit is going to change the facts. Gsgs is just trying to see if he can help the birthers prove their lies, but he can't.I hadn't really looked at it quite like that before, but I like your analysis Foggy. I'm not convinced that gsgs is actually trying to help the birthers, because gsgs seems to be a very strange person whose motivations I cannot understand. But the gist of your analysis - if it quacks like a birther and swims in a pool of birther lies then it can be considered a birther - has merit.The pixels are irrelevant. The certificate (paper and pdf) is definitely genuine. The President is the President. Only birthers cast doubt on any of the facts. So gsgs is a birther lite. Or at minimum a Friend of Birthers!Vogt and Zullo are lying liars who lie.



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#192

Post by gsgs » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:58 pm

the gsgs is one of these rare exemplars in the debate who is unbiased and politically neutraland relies on analysis rather than insulting and ridiculing.Someone who is 98% sure that Obama was born in USA is hardly a birther.



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#193

Post by Dr. Kenneth Noisewater » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:02 am

The gsgs might not be entirely mentally stable when he talks of himself in the third person. He's not "unbiased" or "neutral"The gsgs just likes to post spam.



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#194

Post by Mikedunford » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:26 am

the gsgs is one of these rare exemplars in the debate who is unbiased and politically neutraland relies on analysis rather than insulting and ridiculing.Someone who is 98% sure that Obama was born in USA is hardly a birther.The gsgs needs to learn about the fallacy of the golden mean.


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#195

Post by Estiveo » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:53 am

the gsgs is one of these rare exemplars in the debate who is unbiased and politically neutral


and relies on analysis rather than insulting and ridiculing.


Someone who is 98% sure that Obama was born in USA is hardly a birther.The gsgs needs to learn about the fallacy of the golden mean.The gsgs needs to learn about the inevitable result of the monkey chasing the weasel all about the cobbler's bench. Unless, just maybe it's the Obots who need the lesson in this case?




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#196

Post by Suranis » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:02 am

This kind of reminds me of when gsgs put up a poll on the chances of the Birth certificate being a forgery. and the lowest chance he would allow was 0.000001%, but there was no space for 0%. So we could have had "Fagblowers admit there is a chance the BC was forged!" headlines. Such a pity no-one fell for that one.http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... p387916And it was so good he did it twicehttp://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 05#p389105


Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

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#197

Post by Estiveo » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:04 am

This kind of reminds me of when gsgs put up a poll on the chances of the Birth certificate being a forgery. and the lowest chance he would allow was 0.000001%, but there was no space for 0%. So we could have had "Fagblowers admit there is a chance the BC was forged!" headlines. Such a pity no-one fell for that one.http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... p387916And it was so good he did it twicehttp://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 89105:yeah:


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#198

Post by Slartibartfast » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:18 am

the gsgs is one of these rare exemplars in the debate who is unbiased and politically neutraland relies on analysis rather than insulting and ridiculing.Someone who is 98% sure that Obama was born in USA is hardly a birther.The gsgs is clearly unaware of its bias and while it might not have a horse in the US political race, it is not politically neutral (no one is). It might rely on analysis, but it is a naive amateur when it comes to that analysis and it is unwilling to acknowledge its mistakes and deficiencies, let alone learn from them. Someone who is 98% sure of something that is 100% certain is still giving one side too much credit. Sorry, but as much as you like to whine about people here being mean to you, all of the attacks have been justified by your own comments and your unwillingness to engage in discussions in good faith.I think your problem is that you don't understand how to engage in good faith discussion and, as a result, you value your idea of the trappings (like your false equivalences and projection of bias) over the spirit of scientific inquiry because your ignorance blinds your perception of both your own behavior as well as ours. You may not be a birther, but you seem to have a sympathy for their position which is not justified by the facts as well as sharing many of their disingenuous and inane traits. In short, you have been insulted and ridiculed because your behavior has been contemptible and ridiculous. What part of that don't you get?


"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
---Sun Tzu (quoting Thomas Jefferson)
nam-myoho-renge-kyo---Thomas Jefferson (quoting Slartibartfast)

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#199

Post by Foggy » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:16 am

Some of Vogt's points are probably valid ...The gsgs is an outright liar and is here only for the purpose of lying to us.All of Vogt's "points" are more accurately described -- by Vogt -- as "points of FORGERY". But the PDF is not a forgery. The gsgs is just a liar, a troll, and a birther. "98% sure that Obama was born in the USA" is just another outright lie and a pathetic attempt to change the subject. gsgs is not talking about where the president was born. He's talking about how "points of FORGERY" in his birth certificate are "probably valid". He's a lying troll. What's the matter, Mr. Lying Troll? Can't you talk about the birth certificate? Why are you bringing up where he was born as if it was a separate issue?


Mr. William L. Bryan is the root of a great deal of criminal mischief. And yet, Mr. Bryan remains at large.

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#200

Post by Dr. Kenneth Noisewater » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:01 am

This kind of reminds me of when gsgs put up a poll on the chances of the Birth certificate being a forgery. and the lowest chance he would allow was 0.000001%, but there was no space for 0%. So we could have had "Fagblowers admit there is a chance the BC was forged!" headlines. Such a pity no-one fell for that one.[/break1]thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=7826&p=387916#p387916]http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 16#p387916And it was so good he did it twice[/break1]thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=7842&p=389105#p389105]http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 05#p389105Well yeah that was after we said 0-10% was bullshit since he'd accept that as meaning any number above 0%



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