AZ HB2480 (2012)

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mimi
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AZ HB2480 (2012)

#1

Post by mimi » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:33 am

The bill is here:[/break1]azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/50leg/2r/proposed/s.2480410.doc.htm&Session_ID=107]http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.as ... ion_ID=107LATimes:Arizona Senate panel joins Sheriff Arpaio on 'birther' bandwagonexcerpt:On Wednesday, Republican state Rep. Carl Seel’s “birther bill” passed a Senate committee on a party-line vote, the Arizona Republic reported. The bill, passed 4 to 2, would require candidates for president and vice president to submit affidavits to the Arizona secretary of state vowing that they meet the constitutional requirements to hold office, including being born in the U.S. Although Republican state Sen. Judy Burges voted for the bill, she complained that it had been watered down, the Republic reported. An earlier version required the secretary of state to certify candidates' citizenship.Meanwhile, Republican Secretary of State Ken Bennett is expected to call for aspiring chief executives to complete a form that asks about their place of birth. "There has been a lot of media attention devoted to this, so we wanted to make sure there is a standardized form," spokesman Matthew Roberts told the Associated Press.more here:[/break1]latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-sheriff-arpaio-birther-arizona-20120314,0,476900.story?track=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=526351]http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nati ... rit=526351And here:Arizona's birther bill is backSen. Judy Burges, R-Sun City West and the original birther backer in the Legislature, said the bill is a shadow of its earlier self because it no longer requires the Secretary of State to certify natural birth and citizenship.[/break1]azcentral.com/members/Blog/PoliticalInsider/157442]http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/P ... der/157442



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Welsh Dragon
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#2

Post by Welsh Dragon » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:01 am

I wondered if something like this would happen. When this bill passed the House it had nothing to do with elections but the senate committee has stuck everything out and amended it to produce a birfer bill. It is fairly light fare -FOR CANDIDATES FOR PRESIDENT AND17 VICE-PRESIDENT FROM A POLITICAL PARTY THAT IS ENTITLED TO CONTINUED18 REPRESENTATION ON THE BALLOT, THE NATIONAL POLITICAL PARTY COMMITTEE FOR EACH19 OF THOSE CANDIDATES SHALL SUBMIT TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE THE AFFIDAVIT20 SIGNED UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY BY THE PRESIDENTIAL AND VICE-PRESIDENTIAL21 CANDIDATESandI. ANY QUALIFIED ELECTOR MAY CHALLENGE THE NOMINATION PAPER AND29 AFFIDAVIT OF A CANDIDATE, INCLUDING THE FACTS OR LEGAL CONCLUSIONS CONTAINED30 IN THE NOMINATION PAPER AND AFFIDAVIT. THE CHALLENGE SHALL BE MADE AS31 PRESCRIBED IN AND PURSUANT TO SECTION 16-351.http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/50leg/2r/a ... v.pdfGoing this route gets them round some inconvenient deadlines. - they did the same thing last year although later in the game.



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Chilidog
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AZ HB2480 (2012)

#3

Post by Chilidog » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:16 pm

Oh, good. So we can challange the Republican candidates, who ever that might be. . .



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#4

Post by Tarrant » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:31 pm

Isn't this how this bill was done last year? Take a bill already passed by one house, strip every word from it, then staple in the birther stuff. It's weird to me that such a thing isn't frowned on but I call the AZ birther bill going through this same process last year.



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Addie
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AZ HB2480 (2012)

#5

Post by Addie » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:57 am

Charles Pierce, [/break1]esquire.com/blogs/politics/arizona-birther-bill-7362615]Esquire





The Birthers Are Strong in This One





I'm in sunny Arizona for a couple of days and, boy howdy, is the wingnut strong out here. The state legislature's Government Reform Committee — yeah, that one had me on the floor, too — yesterday reported out a birther measure that was probably inspired by the comic stylings of Sheriff Joe Arpaio's "investigation" of the president's origins. ...





This is the third one of these in as many years, and last year's was so nutty that Governor Jan Brewer vetoed it, which means it must have been written in crayon. Undaunted, though, the Tea Partiers in the legislature — who, as we know, are just concerned about The Deficit and The Bailouts — loaded up the mule again this session. Their colleagues are simply throwing up their hands at this point.





"Yesterday," said Democratic state senator David Lujan, who was one of two votes on the committee against the measure, "I asked if this had anything to do with President Obama's birth certificate, and they told me that Sheriff Joe's investigation had given the idea added value.





"It is frustrating. We have something like 250,000 people unemployed in Arizona, and we're occupied with stuff like this. A lot of people, and not just Democrats, are just frustrated with the activities of the Tea Party folks. I don't know what keeps them coming back like this. I really don't. Not with everything else we should be addressing."


Democracy is a garden that has to be tended. -Barack Obama

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#6

Post by borealis » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:38 pm

Charles Pierce, [/break1]esquire.com/blogs/politics/arizona-birther-bill-7362615]Esquire





The Birthers Are Strong in This One





I'm in sunny Arizona for a couple of days and, boy howdy, is the wingnut strong out here. The state legislature's Government Reform Committee — yeah, that one had me on the floor, too — yesterday reported out a birther measure that was probably inspired by the comic stylings of Sheriff Joe Arpaio's "investigation" of the president's origins. ...





This is the third one of these in as many years, and last year's was so nutty that Governor Jan Brewer vetoed it, which means it must have been written in crayon. Undaunted, though, the Tea Partiers in the legislature — who, as we know, are just concerned about The Deficit and The Bailouts — loaded up the mule again this session. Their colleagues are simply throwing up their hands at this point.


"Yesterday," said Democratic state senator David Lujan, who was one of two votes on the committee against the measure, "I asked if this had anything to do with President Obama's birth certificate, and they told me that Sheriff Joe's investigation had given the idea added value.





"It is frustrating. We have something like 250,000 people unemployed in Arizona, and we're occupied with stuff like this. A lot of people, and not just Democrats, are just frustrated with the activities of the Tea Party folks. I don't know what keeps them coming back like this. I really don't. Not with everything else we should be addressing."We know Cold Cut Possum findings were fodder for this bill. The bill's sponsor was at the presser. He even said he was "in a rush" to leave to get this bill through committee.





If the people of AZ are frustrated by these addled racist morons, then they should boot them from the legislature.



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mimi
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AZ HB2480 (2012)

#7

Post by mimi » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:35 pm

Jim Small ‏ @JimSmallThis should be fun: @RepSeel is having a press conference with @RealSheriffJoe today to discuss #HB2480, the so-called "birther" bill[/break1]com/#!/JimSmall/status/184338429490896896]https://twitter.com/#!/JimSmall/status/ ... 9490896896He's a reliable source. Editor of Arizona News Service, publisher of @azcapitoltimes, @TheYellowSheet & #AZ Legislative Report. RT ≠ endorsement. Huge #Coyotes fan.Phoenix, AZ · [/break1]com/]http://azcapitoltimes.com/Don't tweet at Seel. The twitter address above goes to a parody account. Common on twitter to just use @ symbol and attach a name when referencing a person though.



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mimi
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#8

Post by mimi » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:08 pm

Check out this discussion about the bill."Let's say, for example, the person that's in the White House produces the birth certificate that's on the White House (web) page,'' Seel said. The Obama administration has posted a copy of what it says is his long-form birth certificate from Hawaii.Seel said that birth certificate would then be subject to forensic evaluation."If, forensically it comes up short, as Sheriff Joe's investigation shows it comes up short, then, arguably, that person would not be on the ballot,'' he said.Seel said it's irrelevant that the former governor of Hawaii has said the birth certificate is genuine. He said the document should be evaluated in Arizona."It's clearly a power of the states to conduct the elections,'' Seel said. Nor was he dissuaded by a possible legal challenge.more:[/break1]eastvalleytribune.com/arizona/politics/article_ac341c80-7818-11e1-b74b-001871e3ce6c.html#.T3HY2_eIoDI.twitter]http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/arizon ... DI.twitterand[/break1]com/news/local/govt-and-politics/prove-your-birthplace-bill-faces-one-last-push-by-gop/article_92bcfcc0-c62d-5d31-a63b-8814ffa59ef1.html]http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-an ... 59ef1.htmland[/break1]yumasun.com/news/seel-77801-measure-birth.html]http://www.yumasun.com/news/seel-77801- ... birth.htmland i suppose other places.



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AZ HB2480 (2012)

#9

Post by esseff44 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:24 pm

Can't you see every candidate running for office having a supporter or two drag his/her opponent into court for hearings on the validity of their identity papers. Courts would be paralyzed around election time doing not much else.It doesn't sound like Seel is going to get very far with this.



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#10

Post by mimi » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:28 pm

Mar. 27, 2012 12:00 AMThe Republic | azcentral.comTODAY'S AGENDATopic: Presidential citizenship.What it's about: Rep. Carl Seel, R-Phoenix, and Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio will hold a news conference in support of House Bill 2480, which would require presidential and vice-presidential candidates to sign an affidavit confirming they are qualified to run for the position, and make it a crime of perjury to sign an inaccurate affidavit. The bill is part of ongoing national allegations that President Barack Obama was not born in the U.S.Details: 12:30 p.m. in the Senate chambers of the Capitol, 1700 W. Washington St., Phoenix.[/break1]azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2012/03/26/20120326political-tidbits-032712.html]http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepubli ... 32712.html



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Chilidog
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#11

Post by Chilidog » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:30 pm

Thanks for that heads up, Mimi, I happen to have a log in for the east valley of the shadow of death tribune.



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#12

Post by BFB » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:38 pm

Check out this discussion about the bill.





"Let's say, for example, the person that's in the White House produces the birth certificate that's on the White House (web) page,'' Seel said. The Obama administration has posted a copy of what it says is his long-form birth certificate from Hawaii.





Seel said that birth certificate would then be subject to forensic evaluation.





"If, forensically it comes up short, as Sheriff Joe's investigation shows it comes up short, then, arguably, that person would not be on the ballot,'' he said.





Seel said it's irrelevant that the former governor of Hawaii has said the birth certificate is genuine. He said the document should be evaluated in Arizona.





"It's clearly a power of the states to conduct the elections,'' Seel said. Nor was he dissuaded by a possible legal challenge..Soooo ... he wants a forensic examination of a copy of a document. And that would prove ... something.





I mean, he does know that the document from which the .pdf file was generated was a copy of the LFBC, and not the original LFBC, right? Right? Bueller?



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esseff44
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#13

Post by esseff44 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:40 pm

Did you notice the other item on the agenda? A proposed bill to demand that the feds turn over most of the 25million acres of federally owned lands in Arizona to the state. The rules committee thinks its unconstitutional and they should not pass laws that will get them in long, drawn out, expensive court battles. :lol: :lol:Seel wants to pretend there is no full faith and credit clause when it comes to presidential B.C.'s. No, Arizona citizens get to see the original and have Sheriff Joe's posse conduct forensic tests on it. :roll:



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#14

Post by Tarrant » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:44 pm

No forensic document examiner in the country can trump the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution, Mr. Seel.On top of that, if any state did require such documentation of all candidates, would his head explode when a short-form COLB is produced? I don't think he understands that the LFBC is not going to be submitted to him even if something was required. Arpaio's Corsi Copying Posse spent all their time trying to argue the LFBC and completely ignored the fact that an equally valid and equally Full Faith and Credit-worthy COLB has been available since 2008.



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#15

Post by BFB » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:49 pm

No forensic document examiner in the country can trump the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution, Mr. Seel.On top of that, if any state did require such documentation of all candidates, would his head explode when a short-form COLB is produced? I don't think he understands that the LFBC is not going to be submitted to him even if something was required. Arpaio's Corsi Copying Posse spent all their time trying to argue the LFBC and completely ignored the fact that an equally valid and equally Full Faith and Credit-worthy COLB has been available since 2008.Especially considering the COLB is what Hawaii issues when a birth certificate is requested, and that is what would be submitted to any state requiring such. Birfers like to forget that the president had to make a special request, which then had to be ruled on by the Hawaii DOH director, to get a copy of his LFBC.



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Welsh Dragon
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#16

Post by Welsh Dragon » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:03 pm

BTW i could be wrong but there's been no movement on HB2480 for nearly 2 weeks. I suspect they're struggling for votes in the Senate rules committee. This could be Seal whistling in the wind.



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#17

Post by Loren » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:19 pm

[/break1]com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=46999]Senate hearing sought on birther billCarl Seel is trying to salvage his bill. Seel says it's not about Obama:Seel said the measure is not specifically aimed at Obama or even the presidential race, pointing out its provisions would apply to anyone seeking office. But he acknowledged that the measure stems from questions about the president's qualifications.But Seel *also* says:Barto, however, said she will not do that until Seel shows her he has the votes for approval of the measure on the Senate floor. Barto said there was no reason to engage in a divisive floor debate without some assurance the concept has the necessary votes.So Seel is trying to round up that support with a press conference with Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio. Seel promised that Arpaio, who already has raised questions about the validity of President Obama's birth certificate, will have new evidence.So Seel says that his bill, which is *totally* not about Obama, will be justified via a press conference that is entirely about Obama, based on an 'investigation' into only Obama.



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mimi
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#18

Post by mimi » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:23 pm

BTW i could be wrong but there's been no movement on HB2480 for nearly 2 weeks. I suspect they're struggling for votes in the Senate rules committee. This could be Seal whistling in the wind.That might just be it. Or it could be just another avenue for Joe, Carl and the birthers to smear from. Keeping birtherism in the news, and pretending that Obama has provided a fake birth certificate to keep that in the minds of gullible birthers.



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#19

Post by PatGund » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:39 pm

Soooo ... he wants a forensic examination of a copy of a document. And that would prove ... something.





I mean, he does know that the document from which the .pdf file was generated was a copy of the LFBC, and not the original LFBC, right? Right? Bueller?Here's the problem. The minute the State of Hawaii certifies that copy of either the COLB or the long form, it becomes a legal document. And while Rep. Seel and his birtherstani buddies may drag out ever copier salesperson, conspiracy typist, former writers, and instructional media geeks they want, it won't change the fact that the Full Faith and Credit clause of the US Constitution comes into play.





In other words, the State of Arizona cannot look at an official state document from the State of Hawaii and go "nope, not good enough" and demand to see the original the State of Hawaii holds in its archives.



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#20

Post by Judge Mental » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:43 pm

I realise that it's not a court proceeding and that Orly is wrong in her assumption about how the 'best evidence' aspects would play out in a court anyway, but could Seel perhaps be pursuing in graduated steps something vaguely parallel to Orly's (incorrect)notion that if she can somehow get Obama's people to submit the actual certified copy long form issued in April 2011 it may be a route forward to eventually getting court ordered access to the vault vital records?They are stupid enough aren't they?



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Welsh Dragon
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#21

Post by Welsh Dragon » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:52 am

It looks as if my suspicions were correct. All is not well in the AZ Republican fold:Rep. Carl Seel is pressuring Senate President Steve Pierce, R-Prescott, to clear the way for a floor debate on his bill authorizing such lawsuits. Seel said Pierce is refusing to yank the bill from a Senate committee that has run out of time to hear it.But Pierce said Monday he cannot bring HB 2480 to the Senate floor until Sen. Nancy Barto, R-Phoenix, who chairs the Committee on Healthcare and Medical Liability Reform, where the bill is assigned but has not been heard, gives her permission.Barto, however, said she will not do that until Seel shows her he has the votes for approval of the measure on the Senate floor. Barto said there was no reason to engage in a divisive floor debate without some assurance the concept has the necessary votes.http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/arizon ... 6c.htmland in Carl Seel's own words:“It’s on life support, for sure, if it’s not in (Senate) Rules (Committee) by Monday,”...http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2012/03/27/44314/There are also some indications that the House Speaker will not be happy if this bill comes over from the Senate.
Off Topic
In passing - I just noticed that our old friend Senator Kyrsten Sinema has resigned from the AZ Senate and is running for the Democratic nomination for the new 9th Congressional District.



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#22

Post by PatGund » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:03 am

It looks as if my suspicions were correct. All is not well in the AZ Republican fold:I suspect that the chairwoman of the health committee isn't happy about Seel taking an unrelated bill of his that had already passed, gutting it, and staple gunning his birther blather in it's place, thereby dumping it into her committee due to the ORIGINAL content of that bill.I also suspect much of the Arizona GOP don't want to be made laughing stocks again this year.



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#23

Post by Welsh Dragon » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:14 pm

Remember a few days ago Carl the Performing Seel was saying:“It’s on life support, for sure, if it’s not in (Senate) Rules (Committee) by Monday,”...Well Monday's Rules agenda is [/break1]azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/agendas/04020166107%2Edoc%2Ehtm]up and Carl's bill is nowhere to be seen.



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Welsh Dragon
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#24

Post by Welsh Dragon » Fri May 04, 2012 6:20 am

No surprise but the AZ Legislature adjourned sine die last night leaving their latest birther bill languishing in Senate committees. In reality it' s been dead for weeks but there was always the slight chance that there might be a last minute resurrection.



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mimi
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#25

Post by mimi » Fri May 04, 2012 11:08 am

RIP.



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