Georgia: HB 401 (2011)

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Georgia: HB 401 (2011)

#226

Post by Reality Check » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:16 am

Thanks, now you see why it was important to point out to Jim Galloway that ORYR was trying to essentially take my interview as their own.


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Georgia: HB 401 (2011)

#227

Post by Addie » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:46 am

Completely. If it wasn't wrapped you might have decided differently, but your work was exploited by the opposition. I would have done the same thing, I don't actually care who posts stuff from OFGS and I've never gone after anyone for it, because I want it getting around even in Birfistan. But if somebody disguised it, perverted it, took ownership of it the way that creep did, I would.Thanks, now you see why it was important to point out to Jim Galloway that ORYR was trying to essentially take my interview as their own.


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Georgia: HB 401 (2011)

#228

Post by Sequoia32 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:04 pm

Hatfield from the Pee and Evil interview:


For example, it included birth records, hospital records, baptism records, passport records, school records, college records – all different manner of records that might be used as evidence. But the requirement as to any of those records to be submitted would be that you have to produce certified copies of original documentation. So summary documents or computer-generated, non-original documents would not be acceptable.birth records - most likely no longer exist and if they did how would one get a "certified copy"?





hospital records - just what IS this? Do hospitals certify records?





baptism records - Even if a person had one, are they certified? Aren't they more like the heirloom BCs hospitals give out?





passport records - Do they mean expired passports or the ones like Strunk got on Stanley Ann, and once again how do you get them certified?





school records - How long do schools keep records? And who would certify them?





college records - Are transcripts certified? My son's just had to be in a sealed envelope.





That Hatfield would give an interview to the Pee and Evil says to me that he is totally NUTZ!


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Georgia: HB 401 (2011)

#229

Post by bob » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:07 pm

Any custodian of any record can declare, under penalty of perjury, that the copies provided are copies of the original.Whether that counts for certification for Hatfield's bill....


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#230

Post by everalm » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:28 pm

That then takes us to 1. Who is regarded as a satifactory and sufficient custodian of record for said many and diverse pieces of paper? 2. Is there a demonstrable and inviolate chain of custody of the records in every case3. Are the "records" handled in a manner sufficient to demonstrate to legislative satisfaction their originality and authenticity4. Are these records the originals or duplicates and what proof is there of their nature5. Is there a serialization of these records to ensure no duplication or is there a sufficient process in place to handle identification and de-duplication of same6. Are these records covered by privacy requirements and what are they7. Is a record kept of all changes, alterations and amendments for said "records" and does it meet (3) above8. Since baptismal records are mentioned is this not a broach of the Constitution, specifically Article 6 para 3 (No religious test)etcetcetcBasically it's a sack of poo



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#231

Post by SueDB » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:30 pm

Any custodian of any record can declare, under penalty of perjury, that the copies provided are copies of the original.Whether that counts for certification for Hatfield's bill....There are only a small list of folks who can certify true copies of a state documents. As far as the rest - you could have them Notarized as being TRUE COPIES of a document - HOWEVER, the Notary signing does NOT mean that the documents are what they are (as in are genuine as the document is just furnished to the Notary who has no control over the source), just means that this paper is an exact lawful COPY of only the doucument.Back to square 1 - :?: Question: Wouldn't the record have to be transmitted directly from the source to the certifying official to be without question? IOW - You couldn't trust "hand carried" records where the candidate can access them beforehand?????Kinda makes the whole process an exercise in pulling the wool over the Birfers eyes making them think that he is doing something, while actually stealing the kid's candy. -xx -xx


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#232

Post by SueDB » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:34 pm

Then there is the issue where the Birfer bills make noises about submitted hospital records being open to public inspection - I do believe this would be quite a large violation of every privacy law passed since 1973...HIPPA, We Don't Need No Stik'in HIPPA.. -xx -xx


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#233

Post by Foggy » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:23 pm

So Hatfield has been reading the P&E for months and is still a Vattelite despite the Politifact Georgia article that Loren inspired. Obviously it's time for a


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#234

Post by SueDB » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:33 pm

So Hatfield has been reading the P&E for months and is still a Vattelite despite the Politifact Georgia article that Loren inspired. Obviously it's time for a Damn, and it is not even Christmas!! Now that shit is stalking me year round! :(( :(( :((


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Georgia: HB 401 (2011)

#235

Post by PatGund » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:36 pm

So Hatfield has been reading the P&E for months and is still a Vattelite despite the Politifact Georgia article that Loren inspired. Obviously it's time for a Damn, and it is not even Christmas!! Now that shit is stalking me year round! :(( :(( :((Fruitcake is eternal and everlasting......



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#236

Post by Loren » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:45 pm

So Hatfield has been reading the P&E for months and is still a Vattelite despite the Politifact Georgia article that Loren inspired.Hey now, it can be a difficult thing to weigh contrary evidence from competing sources.





On the one hand, you have a major metropolitan newspaper, running a fact-checking column that bears an established and respectable name, and which quotes three current citizenship law experts who say you're wrong.





But on the other hand, you have an internet website, which publishes articles claiming the President is alternatively a Bilderberg Group agent or a shapeshifting alien, which quotes no current legal experts, but which says you're right.





Who wouldn't be conflicted as to which source is more credible? And if you decide that the internet site with the reptilian editorials is a more credible legal source, does that really reflect upon your own ability to evaluate evidence?



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Georgia: HB 401 (2011)

#237

Post by SueDB » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:48 pm

So Hatfield has been reading the P&E for months and is still a Vattelite despite the Politifact Georgia article that Loren inspired. Obviously it's time for a [imgwidth=250]xhttp://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/foghorn_leghorn_photos/threadsigns/fruitcakealert.jpg[/imgwidth]Damn, and it is not even Christmas!! Now that shit is stalking me year round! :(( :(( :((Fruitcake is eternal and everlasting......Just tell that to a couple of bricks in my closet that look like they just came out of the oven...in 1999...You apes want to live forever???


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Georgia: HB 401 (2011)

#238

Post by bob » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:50 pm

Oh, [/break1]thepostemail.com/2011/03/15/update-on-georgia-presidential-eligibility-bill-part-2/]the comments on Rondeau's interview with Hatfield are just filled with madz!





Some amusing, some disgusting; too many to quote.





As they say: More at the link.


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#239

Post by Foggy » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:37 pm

Oh, [/break1]thepostemail.com/2011/03/15/update-on-georgia-presidential-eligibility-bill-part-2/]the comments on Rondeau's interview with Hatfield are just filled with madz! =))





They're going to be so excited when President Obama takes Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina and pretty much wraps up the nomination by Super Tuesday ...





I can't wait!!


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#240

Post by verbalobe » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:56 pm

Question for birther-types like Hatfield: "Conceding for the sake of argument that Article II creates a 'heightened standard' for citizen, than just a 'regular citizen' -- What is it about Barack Obama that makes you so much less sure he meets that standard, than GW Bush? ARE you 100% sure GW Bush met that standard? If so, how so?"



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#241

Post by bob » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:58 pm

Question for birther-types like Hatfield: "Conceding for the sake of argument that Article II creates a 'heightened standard' for citizen, than just a 'regular citizen' -- What is it about Barack Obama that makes you so much less sure he meets that standard, than GW Bush? ARE you 100% sure GW Bush met that standard? If so, how so?"I was hoping to ask a similar question on RC's show.The standard birther deflection is: Bush is no longer POTUS; Obama is; move on.Someone (Foggy, IIRC) did ask Hatfield what did he do in 2004 regarding eligibility, and his answer was that he wasn't in the legislature at that point.


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#242

Post by verbalobe » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:17 pm

The standard birther deflection is: Bush is no longer POTUS; Obama is; move on.You're right. And in the context of the Hatfield show, I think the answer to that deflection is: "Come on, get real. This is about enforcing the constitution. We're not just talking about a city councilman or a state senator, we're talking about the leader of the free world. You must have been very sure GW Bush met that 'heightened standard.' What did you base that certainty on? Because we aren't saying there is a 'heightened standard' for Obama alone, right? This standard has been met by every President. There isn't suddenly a new standard in 2008, right? So I think it's only fair to look at how that standard was met and assured in prior years. Does Obama have to meet a higher standard than GW Bush did, or the same standard?"



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Georgia: HB 401 (2011)

#243

Post by Butterfly Bilderberg » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:12 pm

Birther bill sponsor tries, fails to get vote





By April Hunt





The Atlanta Journal-Constitution





The sponsor of a “birther” bill that has stalled in the Georgia House made a last-ditch effort Tuesday to get a vote on the proposal.





Rep. Mark Hatfield, R-Waycross, failed in his attempt to get the powerful Rules Committee to amend a bill setting the date for Georgia’s presidential primary. He tried to add language from House Bill 401, which would force presidential and vice presidential candidates to prove their U.S. citizenship before landing on the Georgia ballot.





The attempt would have led to a Crossover Day vote on Wednesday, the last day for a measure to pass from one chamber for review in another. The primary bill is up for a vote on Wednesday, but without any amendments.[link]More,http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politic ... 73634.html[/link]








As the [link]Peach Pundit,http://www.peachpundit.com/2011/03/15/b ... rn-people/[/link] explained





The bill has become an embarassment and is going nowhere. This isn’t Sunday Sales, and this bill doesn’t have nine lives. It is dead.





... Rep Tom Weldon made the amendment request, not Hatfield, as Hatfield is not a member of Rules, and was thus unable to offer the amendment to committee. Chairman Meadows ruled the amendment out of order, and refused to attach it to the bill under consideration. Dead. D.E.A.D. dead.The good news is that SB 10, the Sunday alcohol sales bill, cleared the Senate Rules Committee and will go to a floor vote tomorrow. :-bd


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#244

Post by Reality Check » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:14 pm

:-({|= Another one bites the dust.


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#245

Post by mimi » Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:36 pm

I hope some of those birfing representatives have some damage from the publicity.



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#246

Post by verbalobe » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:35 am

I hope some of those birfing representatives have some damage from the publicity.I doubt it.





I am working on a "Birfer Talking Points As Inspired By Sen. Mark Hatfield" chart. I was pretty impressed that it took him less than 2 minutes to get from


I'm just a guy who believes that our constitution ought to be respected."...to...


Were you there when he was born in Hawaii in 1961? Were you there? I wasn't."So the only proof he would really accept is an eyewitness account.





Some other gems from the Constitutional Lawyer (is everyone a Constitutional Lawyer??)


[*:24aimy4j]The states have a duty to enforce the constitution


[*:24aimy4j]Violation of medical privacy laws is a small price to pay for the privilege of seeking the highest office in the land


[*:24aimy4j]The Full Faith and Credit clause would not have applied to his bill -- allowing the Georgia SoS to reject a Hawaii COLB as proof of the circumstances of a birth -- because it is an internal state matter for Georgia to establish the criteria for access to the Georgia ballot ](*,)


[*:24aimy4j]On a birth certificate, the hospital name and birthplaces of the parents are the 'best evidence' of where a person was born


[*:24aimy4j]The exact standards written into his bill for what a birth certificate should contain were derived from looking at his own birth certificate. Therefore:


[*:24aimy4j]He must not be expecting any non-Georgia native sons/daughters to run for President


[*:24aimy4j]He must want to make the standards for qualification too high for Obama, but not so high that he himself could not run.[*:24aimy4j]His reason for pursuing this is that the issue has attained national significance. The reason it has attained national significance:


[*:24aimy4j]He brought his first bill last year in answer to the need for "an opportunity to put something out there, and start a public dialogue about the issue. And, in fact, you know it did trigger public dialogue in Georgia, and has contributed to the overall dialogue in the country."


[*:24aimy4j]So it's a national issue because he helped make it a national issue. Therefore it must be dealt with. [*:24aimy4j]A computer-generated summary (the COLB) is not sufficient, because:


[*:24aimy4j]We haven't seen the source data, especially to ensure he actually was born in Hawaii, and it isn't one of those 'become a Hawaiian citizen by mail' things


[*:24aimy4j]The state official who DID vouch for it (Fukino) must have looked at that very same source data, which is restricted from the public, so that's suspicious


[*:24aimy4j]BUT, assuming that ALL OF THAT is copasetic, and it's true and legitimate, it's not in the hands of the Georgia SoS, it's just an image on the internet.[*:24aimy4j]There are 'conflicting lines of authority' on whether NBC requires citizen parents. On his side:


[*:24aimy4j]Vattel's Law of Nations


[*:24aimy4j]A newspaper editorial by Breckenridge Long


[*:24aimy4j]Posthumous questions about Chester Arthur.None of which is a 'line of authority' I might note.


[*:24aimy4j]There is no SCOTUS opinion "on point".[/list]Was this guy coached by MichaelN? What a disappointment from an elected representative.





He also lied in that on the one hand he said he believed NBC requires two citizen parents, and on the other he 'doesn't know' if Obama is eligible. As we know, if you accept the first, you must assert that Obama is ineligible -- AND if you assert that Vattelism is the commonly accepted wisdom by both scholars and regular folks (as most birthers assert), how do you explain the Republican Congress's inaction?





Hatfield is more than flirting with a serious break from reality here. Is he among those asserting that Cantor, Boehner, and Issa are sitting tight on this out fear of race riots, or because they've been bought off, or something crazier?





We probably won't get another shot at him, but I think a State Senator -- even a skilled and weaselly interviewee -- could be made to face a few more tough questions.



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#247

Post by poutine » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:27 am

Just a friendly reminder that the "Republican Congress" DID act. To be more precise, every Republican Congressman in the then-Democratic Congress acted, by voting to accept the results of the electoral college, unanimously, thereby confirming the election of Barack Obama as president. He could not have become president without the final assent of Congress.



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#248

Post by verbalobe » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:52 am

Just a friendly reminder that the "Republican Congress" DID act. To be more precise, every Republican Congressman in the then-Democratic Congress acted, by voting to accept the results of the electoral college, unanimously, thereby confirming the election of Barack Obama as president. He could not have become president without the final assent of Congress.Great point.So I will add one other quote from Hatfield:... there is currently nothing that we have from Congress in the way of guidance, as to the enforcement of Article 2, Section 1, and I feel that in the absence of any action by Congress..."



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#249

Post by Foggy » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:12 am

The death of this bill has all of Birtherstan in a lather.





They know the courts aren't going to remove the usurperin' mofo.





They know the military isn't, either.





They know Congress isn't going to do it.





For all of the assurances they give each other that they're winning and "any day now" and even in the worst case (which is he finishes his term of office), he doesn't have a hope of re-election next year ... for all of that, they know that the GOP doesn't have anyone who really inspires the country and they know that this "state birther ballot bills" thingy was about their last hope of winning something, anything. And it's dying faster than a salted snail.





In desperation, they're trying to latch on to Orly's Social Security number insanity. But that's going nowhere, too.


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#250

Post by Loren » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:08 am

Birther bill sponsor tries, fails to get vote





By April Hunt





The sponsor of a “birther” bill that has stalled in the Georgia House made a last-ditch effort Tuesday to get a vote on the proposal.





Rep. Mark Hatfield, R-Waycross, failed in his attempt to get the powerful Rules Committee to amend a bill setting the date for Georgia’s presidential primary. He tried to add language from House Bill 401, which would force presidential and vice presidential candidates to prove their U.S. citizenship before landing on the Georgia ballot.Funny thing; when I asked Hatfield on RC's show about his bill being limited to only the Presidential race, and not including any other federal or state candidates, he responded by citing to Georgia's single-subject rule for proposed legislation.





So it's interesting to see that after that conversation, he tried to affix his own proposal onto a completely unrelated bill about the Presidential primary date.



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