CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

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CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#1

Post by Orlylicious » Fri May 06, 2016 5:40 pm

Jake Tapper does a fact check. CNN and Factcheck.org collaborated to dispel Donald Trump's claims:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSKnpvvT6cQ
Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'
Hillary Clinton did not start the 'birther' movement
By Jake Tapper, Casey Capachi and Jeremy Harlan, CNN
Updated 6:50 AM ET, Fri May 6, 2016

Washington (CNN) As part of a partnership with FactCheck.org, CNN examines the lack of evidence to Donald Trump's claim that Hillary Clinton started the "birther" movement against Barack Obama in 2008. As FactCheck.org reported before, there's no proof Clinton had anything to do with the claims that Obama wasn't born in the United States and thus was ineligible to be president.

But while Trump's specific claim against Hillary Clinton is not true, her supporters' hands are not entirely clean. In January 2007, Insight Magazine, a right-wing publication, reported that Clinton's team had questions about Obama's Muslim background. It said that researchers connected to Clinton were spreading the allegation that he spent four years in a madrassa. The Clinton campaign said this was not true.

And back on March 19, 2007, then-Clinton adviser Mark Penn wrote a strategy memo to Clinton about Obama. It did not raise the issue of Obama's citizenship. But it did identify Obama's "lack of American roots" as something that "could hold him back." Reggie Love, the longtime traveling aide to Obama, wrote in his book that Clinton and Obama had a heated conversation about the notion that Clinton supporters were sending emails saying that he was a Muslim.

In a March 2008 interview with "60 Minutes," Clinton said she took then-Sen. Obama's word that he was not a Muslim, but when pressed if she believed he was, she replied, "No. No, there is nothing to base that on -- as far as I know." What we see in 2008 from Clinton is a subtle stoking of questions about Obama's identity, but she never went as far as Donald Trump did in 2011 in an interview with Fox News. "He doesn't have a birth certificate. He may have one, but there's something on that, maybe religion, maybe it says he is a Muslim. I don't know. Maybe he doesn't want that," said Trump in the 2011 interview.

Bottom line: Clinton stoked questions about Obama's identity. But Clinton herself never questioned Obama's birth certificate.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/06/politics/ ... s_politics

Factcheck.org: (Including this because factcheck.org wants the truth to get out and it's directly on point for The Fogbow)
Hillary Clinton Wasn’t a ‘Birther’
By D'Angelo Gore Posted on May 5, 2016

Donald Trump again has repeated the false claim that Hillary Clinton “started” the so-called “birther” movement against Barack Obama in 2008. As we wrote last year, there’s no evidence that Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with bogus claims that Obama wasn’t born in the United States and thus was ineligible to be president.

What we do know, as we wrote in November 2008, is that some of Clinton’s most loyal supporters pushed that theory during that year’s presidential campaign. Trump previously linked Clinton to the “birther” movement during a speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference in February 2015. On Sept. 22, 2015, he tweeted, “Just remember, the birther movement was started by Hillary Clinton in 2008. She was all in!” He made the claim most recently during a May 4 interview with CNN’s Wolf Blitzer.

Trump, May 4: Do you know who started the “birther” movement? Do you know who started it? Do you know who questioned his birth certificate? One of the firsts? Hillary Clinton. She’s the one that started it. She brought it up years before it was brought up by me.

But Trump’s campaign has never provided any evidence that claims that Obama was not born in the U.S. originated with Clinton or her campaign. In 2011, Politico did publish an article on the origins of “birtherism” that said that it began with Democrats, not Republicans.

Politico, April 22, 2011: The answer lies in Democratic, not Republican politics, and in the bitter, exhausting spring of 2008. At the time, the Democratic presidential primary was slipping away from Hillary Clinton and some of her most passionate supporters grasped for something, anything that would deal a final reversal to Barack Obama.

Philip Berg, a former deputy Pennsylvania attorney general and a self-described “moderate to liberal” who supported Clinton, was among the first to file a lawsuit over Obama’s birth certificate. Berg’s suit was dismissed on grounds that he had no legal standing to file it.

But one of the authors of the Politico story, Byron Tau, now a reporter for the Wall Street Journal, told FactCheck.org via email that “we never found any links between the Clinton campaign and the rumors in 2008.” The other coauthor of the Politico story, Ben Smith, now the editor-in-chief of BuzzFeed, previously told MSNBC during a 2013 interview that the conspiracy theories traced back to “some of [Hillary Clinton’s] passionate supporters.” But he said the theories did not come from “Clinton herself or her staff.”

On March 19, 2007, then Clinton adviser Mark Penn wrote a strategy memo to Clinton that identified Obama’s “lack of American roots” as something that “could hold him back.” That memo, which was part of campaign documents featured in a September 2008 article in The Atlantic, cited Obama’s “boyhood in Indonesia and his life in Hawaii” as life experiences that made his “basic American values … at best limited.” But Penn’s memo did not question Obama’s birthplace or his birth certificate. It advised Clinton to contrast her life experiences in middle America “without turning negative.” “We are never going to say anything about his background,” Penn wrote.

If Trump has evidence that proves otherwise, it is long past time for him to produce it.

https://www.sharethefacts.co/share/a204 ... e60d11e742
http://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/hillar ... a-birther/



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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#2

Post by Reality Check » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:33 am

Politifact on the other hand is still is trying to claim Hillary's people started the Birther movement.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... supporter/


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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#3

Post by Epectitus » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:59 am

The definitive answer to this question still belongs to Loren Collins:

The Secret Origin of the Birthers
Virtually all of Birtherism owes its existence to the rumor that Barack Obama’s mother, Ann Dunham, did not give birth to him in Hawaii. As the rumor goes, she instead had traveled to Kenya for unspecified reasons, and had given birth to her son there, before returning to Honolulu and falsely claiming that she gave birth in Hawaii. This is the rumor that eventually caused the Birther conspiracy theory to tip as an epidemic, that drove the resultant demands for the release of Obama’s birth certificate, that inspired the immediate skepticism of the birth certificate following its release, and ultimately led to the neverending supply of alternative legal theories as to why Obama ought to be deemed Constitutionally ineligible for the Presidency. Perhaps one or more of these events would have transpired anyway in the absence of the Kenyan birth rumor, but as it happened, the rumor was the root cause of them all.

And that rumor first appeared in the early hours of Saturday, March 1, 2008, on the conservative web forum, FreeRepublic.com.


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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#4

Post by Reality Check » Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:17 am

I may send a link to Loren's articles to the editors at Politifact. However, once before I pointed out an error they made in an article that said that Obama began working at Baskin-Robbins in 1975 or 1976 and they wouldn't change it. I bet Doc has done it already though. He mentioned the article in a comment.


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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#5

Post by Dolly » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:37 pm

Donald Trump did in 2011 in an interview with Fox News. "He doesn't have a birth certificate. He may have one, but there's something on that, maybe religion, maybe it says he is a Muslim. I don't know. Maybe he doesn't want that," said Trump in the 2011 interview.
Has anybody ever seen Religion on a birth certificate? How does a new born baby even have a religion?
Are there Republican infants? :think:


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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#6

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:14 pm

I have it on Good Authority that one of President Obama's birther lawyers has sent an email to Ms. Graves, requesting a correction.



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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#7

Post by esseff44 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:16 pm

:thumbs: :clap:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:I have it on Good Authority that one of President Obama's birther lawyers has sent an email to Ms. Graves, requesting a correction.



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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#8

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:46 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:I have it on Good Authority that one of President Obama's birther lawyers has sent an email to Ms. Graves, requesting a correction.
:thumbs: :rotflmao:


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#9

Post by RoadScholar » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:49 pm

Mr. Obama actually does hire the best people.


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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#10

Post by Orlylicious » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:22 pm

Does anyone have an image of the original Free Republic message about birthing?

Looking for info to tweet... they were wrong again on CNN and have pointed to Loren's article but wish there was a page with some multimedia etc... that was easy for press to see... it would be a real public service, more know here than anywhere else. I hate seeing media keep being wrong and trying... :P

Any good twitter copy is great too also. Having seen a message get to Michael Cohen, I'm convinced you really can break through and that brings a big audience. If anybody's seen a good distilling down the debunking and mocking please post it. It's going to be an issue through November. :brickwallsmall:

And to counter the torrent of this. They just post and post and post. Victoria G. Gray ‏@Genie115 27m


In case you haven't seen it, there's an excellent 2 part from ABC News with the ridiculous Milo. These #AltRightMeans people like @cernovich, a CA attorney, are outrageous.

Confronting Internet Trolls
ABC News 1,955,326
29,848 views Published on Sep 2, 2016
One writer says he went out to lunch with his Internet troll, while another made a video detailing her worst harassment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkrY6Ny7pMg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-PkZ1H5Xo0

Maybe there should be a #Birthers on Twitter topic, Neil Turner is really active and of course Orly is bizzy.



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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#11

Post by Orlylicious » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:52 pm

Found an image, here's a link: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/ ... ge=391#391

Image
It's at http://deffe.com/image/8Nf

Attached the image to this tweet:
Orly Licious ‏@Orly_licious 49s

@brikeilarcnn @CNNPolitics 1st #Birther comment 3/1/2008 on RW Free Republic not HRC. Facts: http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... thers.html
:boxing:



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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#12

Post by Orlylicious » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:07 pm

WaPo just tweeted a Birther story and replied with the tweet info about FR:
Washington Post Verified account @washingtonpost

Trump won’t talk about being a birther — or many other controversial comments
8:03 PM - 6 Sep 2016

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... ?tid=sm_tw



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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#13

Post by Foggy » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:10 am

Orlylicious wrote:Found an image, here's a link: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/ ... ge=391#391

Image
It's at http://deffe.com/image/8Nf

Attached the image to this tweet:
Orly Licious ‏@Orly_licious 49s

@brikeilarcnn @CNNPolitics 1st #Birther comment 3/1/2008 on RW Free Republic not HRC. Facts: http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... thers.html
:boxing:
Most excellent. :clap: :thumbs:


... and how does that make you feel?
What is it you're trying to say?
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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#14

Post by Orlylicious » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:40 am

CNN is talking about it again now at 11:30am EDT, just tweeted the panel:
Orly Licious ‏@Orly_licious 5m 5 minutes ago
@JohnBerman 1st #Birther hit 3/1/08 on Free Rep. We debunk @ Fogbow search.php?search_id=active_topics http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... thers.html

Orly Licious ‏@Orly_licious 1m 1 minute ago
@KateBolduan @jeffzeleny 1st #Birther hit 3/1/08 Free Rep. We debunk http://thefogbow.com/forumsearch.php?se ... ive_topicshttp://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... thers.html



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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#15

Post by Orlylicious » Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:14 pm

Hillary just posted about Birthers

Image

Image



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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#16

Post by Loren » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:38 pm

Orlylicious wrote:Does anyone have an image of the original Free Republic message about birthing?

Looking for info to tweet... they were wrong again on CNN and have pointed to Loren's article but wish there was a page with some multimedia etc... that was easy for press to see... it would be a real public service, more know here than anywhere else. I hate seeing media keep being wrong and trying... :P
I just gave a presentation on Obama and Clinton conspiracy theories last week at DragonCon, and included a bunch of screenshots in my talk. I'd been entertaining writing up a revised account with illustrations, and the fact that there's potentially a need and a demand for it tells me I should get to work on that.

I'll drop a link when I get it done.



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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#17

Post by RVInit » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:24 pm

Loren wrote:
Orlylicious wrote:Does anyone have an image of the original Free Republic message about birthing?

Looking for info to tweet... they were wrong again on CNN and have pointed to Loren's article but wish there was a page with some multimedia etc... that was easy for press to see... it would be a real public service, more know here than anywhere else. I hate seeing media keep being wrong and trying... :P
I just gave a presentation on Obama and Clinton conspiracy theories last week at DragonCon, and included a bunch of screenshots in my talk. I'd been entertaining writing up a revised account with illustrations, and the fact that there's potentially a need and a demand for it tells me I should get to work on that.

I'll drop a link when I get it done.
:like:

BTW - I posted something one time to which someone (I apologize I forget who!) suggested I check out your book Bullspotting. I own it on Kindle. Excellent! :like:


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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#18

Post by Suranis » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:25 pm

Might have been me. Bullspotting is always in my bag as reading material if I have to wait somewhere. Great book.


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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#19

Post by RVInit » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:36 pm

Suranis wrote:Might have been me. Bullspotting is always in my bag as reading material if I have to wait somewhere. Great book.
I apologize that I don't recall. If it was you, thank you very much! :dance:


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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#20

Post by Foggy » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:36 pm

I have Bullspotting on my Kindle too also. Excellent book.


... and how does that make you feel?
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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#21

Post by Plutodog » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:42 pm

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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#22

Post by Orlylicious » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:16 am

Loren wrote:
Orlylicious wrote:Does anyone have an image of the original Free Republic message about birthing?

Looking for info to tweet... they were wrong again on CNN and have pointed to Loren's article but wish there was a page with some multimedia etc... that was easy for press to see... it would be a real public service, more know here than anywhere else. I hate seeing media keep being wrong and trying... :P
I just gave a presentation on Obama and Clinton conspiracy theories last week at DragonCon, and included a bunch of screenshots in my talk. I'd been entertaining writing up a revised account with illustrations, and the fact that there's potentially a need and a demand for it tells me I should get to work on that.

I'll drop a link when I get it done.
Thanks Loren, I've been tweeting the link but the slides would be great. Trump campaigns focus this week is going to be "deplorables" so expect a lot of birther back and forth. Surprising they'd want to play on Clinton turf but they need something.. they've instructed Trump staff if they comment on health they'll be fired (according to CNN).



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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#23

Post by Orlylicious » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:40 pm

Dave Weigel used his birther superpowers for a WaPo article that's being recirculating:
Republicans are blaming Hillary Clinton for the ‘birther’ movement. That’s wishful thinking.
By David Weigel September 23, 2015

Donald Trump no longer wants to be America's birther-in-chief. In a Monday interview with Fox News — which might have been his last — Trump said that questions about President Obama's citizenship "began" with Hillary Clinton, "when she was running against him." On Wednesday, at a rally in South Carolina, Trump emphasized that Clinton was "the original birther" and "the one who started that whole thing."

This was not Trump's first dabble with birther revisionism. At CPAC this winter, he insisted to Fox News host Sean Hannity that he was not the first birth certificate sleuth — only the most successful. "Hillary Clinton wanted his birth certificate," Trump said. "Hillary is a birther. She wanted it, but she was unable to get it."

And more and more conservatives have settled on the Trump line — that the questions about Obama's citizenship were so slimy that they obviously came from the Clinton camp. "The whole birther thing was started by the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2008 against Barack Obama," Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) confidently told Yahoo News this summer.

The problem: This is simply not true. Clinton's campaign, one of the most thoroughly dissected in modern history, never raised questions about the future president's citizenship. The idea that it did is based largely on a series of disconnected actions by supporters of Clinton, mostly in the months between Obama's reaction to the Jeremiah Wright story and the Democratic National Convention. I know, because I spent/wasted quite a lot of time covering this stuff.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... &tid=ss_tw

@stevenjay @daveweigel Fogbow lawyers/experts discussed this debunking #Birthers at http://thefogbow.com/ it was Freepers not PUMAs.



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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#24

Post by Orlylicious » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:56 pm

There's an interesting Twitter thread about this with a lot of the participants:
Ari Fleischer ‏@AriFleischer 13h13 hours ago
Hillary calls on Trump 2apologize for his birther remarks. Will she apologize 4 her staff spreading that rumor when she ran vs Obama in '08?

Jon Favreau ‏@jonfavs 13h13 hours ago
.@AriFleischer you're lying, Ari - and you're smart enough to know you're lying, which makes it even worse.

Ari Fleischer Verified account @AriFleischer
@jonfavs I did not say she started it. I said her staff spread it, and you know that is true.
12:30 PM - 16 Sep 2016

Jon Favreau ‏@jonfavs 12h12 hours ago
@AriFleischer I was there, and you weren't, so I know it's not true. And every fact-checker and journalist in America says it's not true.

Mo Elleithee Verified account @MoElleithee
No, @AriFleischer, it is not. The one rogue staffer who sent an email was fired pretty damn quick.

This is a lie.

Patti Solis Doyle @PattiSolisDoyle
.@MoElleithee @AriFleischer I fired the rogue & I called @davidplouffe to apologize 4 said rogue

David Plouffe Verified account @davidplouffe
True. Unlike what we heard from the Birther in Chief today. Or any day for the last 5 years.

stuart stevens ‏@stuartpstevens 10 minutes ago
Campaigns always attract random nuts who have to be weeded out. It's just unusual to nominate one.



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Re: CNN & Factcheck.org: "Hillary Clinton was not a 'birther'" May 6 2016

#25

Post by Fortinbras » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:24 am

I was keenly interested in the birfer movement from the beginning, when Obama felt it necessary to make public the short form birth certificate in early 2008. I am quite certain that Sen. Hillary Clinton was NOT a birfer. She certainly would not have yielded up her delegates in the 2008 Convention so graciously if she had positioned herself as a birfer.

But I remember Trump being a mouthy birfer almost from the first year of the Obama Administration, and then, even more insulting, demanding that Obama make public his college records -- and offering as an inducement a hefty donation to the United Negro College Fund.



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