NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

Old Grunt
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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#151

Post by Old Grunt » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:23 pm

HONOLULU – Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it's against state law to release private documents, his office said Friday.





http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110122/ap_ ... ertificate





:-kDidn't take Kreskin to see that one coming.



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#152

Post by Old Grunt » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:26 pm

Dumb like a fox, Abercommie my new hero. The man who brought Rush Limpballs firmly into the Birfer Camp..Outstanding plan, outstanding result. May he bring Beck along too. {SMILIES_PATH}/pray.gif I'm [link]yappin' about it over in the WND thread,viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1346&p=205641#p205641[/link].I agree with you Foggy. Don't underestimate Abercrombie. I think Abercrombie is playing dumb like a fox. Obama is a Constitutional Law expert's Constitutional Law expert, no? And what do they say about you lawyer types? Never ask a question you don't already know the answer to, right? Abercrombie and Obama already know there's a "long form", "longer form", "original form" somewhere that could be released with Obama's A-OK. This is a deliberate plan to draw all the birthers into thinking and saying Abercrombie is just a dumb old whatever the Hawaiian term is for "hick from the sticks", get the issue all heated up and then Wham!, they're going to hit them with the real deal. The closer to the 2012 Democratic Convention, the better. This is Obama jujitsu, "take the pebble from my hand, grasshopper" shit going on here.You have sufficiently more faith in Abercrombie than I do. Also, @ Res Ipsa: I like Joe Biden. I just meant to say that Abercrombie is gaffe prone and impulsive.This was not well thought out.



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#153

Post by Drew68 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:30 pm

Dumb like a fox, Abercommie my new hero. The man who brought Rush Limpballs firmly into the Birfer Camp.If you read the transcript of Rush's show, I'm not so sure I'd call him a birther (much to the disappointment of Wing Nut Daily who would be jubilant to have Limbaugh in their camp).[/break1]rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_012111/content/01125106.guest.html]http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/ ... guest.htmlIf you read Limbaugh's comments, he sounds as though Abercrombie is playing a "head fake" or rope-a-dope with the issue, trying to sucker Obama's opponents into the birther camp only so they can be made to look like fools at some later time. Limbaugh, agree with him or not, is wisely remaining cautious.



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#154

Post by raicha » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:36 pm

Once a President has served his 8 years, wouldn't a document like a photo of the Hawaii 1961 micro-fiche at DOH, just become a historical document? How would privacy laws intervene at that point? Obama is entitled the same privacy as ordinary citizens, both before and after his Presidency. It is not a special Presidential privacy law, it is the same one that applies to all Hawaiian-born citizens.



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#155

Post by Highlands » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:38 pm

If you read Limbaugh's comments, he sounds as though Abercrombie is playing a "head fake" or rope-a-dope with the issue, trying to sucker Obama's opponents into the birther camp only so they can be made to look like fools at some later time. Limbaugh, agree with him or not, is wisely remaining cautious.That's how I read Limbaugh's comments as well. Remember the time President Obama suckered all of those Republicans into repudiating Rush, and then those same Republican's had to turn around days later and kiss Rush's ass? Those were fun times! Maybe this will be a repeat of that? {SMILIES_PATH}/pray.gif


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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#156

Post by A Legal Lohengrin » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:37 pm

If Repigs rely on birfing in 2012 they'll lose. So I don't even care about this tempest in a teapot. The more attention is paid to birfing, the worse birfing does.



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#157

Post by Bob Weber » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:51 pm

On the WND thread, I commented:Hate to say it, but Abercrombie is off on a fool's errand. If the birfers wouldn't believe GOP Governor Lingle and her appointees, why would they believe him?There's also the privacy laws. Now the Honolulu Star-Advertiser has this article:Abercrombie drops effort to disclose more information on Obama birth certificate[/break1]staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/114401004.html#comments]http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/brea ... l#commentsWhat a blockhead! I'm really surprised that Democrats are becoming so inept at the rough-and-tumble of basic politics. Back when Georgia Cong., now Gov. Nathan Deal was playing footsie with the birfers, and actually sent a letter to the White House asking for a copy of the BC, I would have sent out a press release to the effect that "The President is responding to the demands of Rep. Deal and a number of his fellow Republicans. A copy of the President's birth certificate is being sent by certified mail from the Hawaii Department of Health to Rep. Deal." And then I would have had Hawaii send him a copy of the famous COLB, and let Deal say "Thank You", or let him explain to the press why this is inadequate.



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#158

Post by Foggy » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:22 am

He knew that privacy laws would prevent him from releasing the original before he started the ruckus.





I think his plan is what happened -- to give the issue more visibility without "resolving" it, since it's never gonna be resolved.





From [link]WashPo,http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 07092.html[/link]:"There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do within the law to produce a document," said [spokeswoman Donalyn]Dela Cruz. "Unfortunately, there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of our president."


"Wink, wink, hint, hint, nudge, nudge, say no more."





"So go ahead."





"See if we care."





"We can't stop you."





"We can't prove he was born here."





"Never mind."





=))


... and how does that make you feel?
What is it you are trying to say?
:think:

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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#159

Post by bob » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:07 am

Miss Tickly [/break1]wordpress.com/2011/01/15/disclosure-required/]weighs in:Why is the State AG being asked to disclose Obama's 'birth documentation?' He isn't the custodian of the records? Actually, he isn't the administrator for HRS338-18(a) or the UIPA either. Of course, privacy laws don't allow him to release birth documentation--he's the state attorney general--not the Director of the Department of Health and he's not an attorney with the Office of Information Practices. Neither the State AG nor the Governor have administrative authority over Obama's vital records. Requests for vital records go to the DIRECTOR of the Department of Health. Hello? Abercrombie is stupid. There's no kind way to say it. The man is dumber than a rock....or he thinks WE are.Where is the OIP on this matter? Where is the OIP's appeal decision? The people are STILL owed legal decisions from both the HDOH and OIP. If Abercrombie thinks this distraction is going to keep people from demanding their legal rights – he is wrong.In the last month, Abercrombie has floated a couple of ideas--putting out a forgery and telling people Obama's birth records were *poof* gone. Neither idea was floating too well so like infantile cowards, they decide it's better to convince people that they are too dumb to see the writing on the wall (understand the UIPA) while robbing them of their rights at the same time.And the dishonest excuse that privacy law prevents them from disclosing anything without Obama's consent just makes Obama look like a bigger baby than ever. What a whiny turd! As if anyone can respect either man. Abercrombie, you and Obama are criminals and you look like a couple of three year olds with your fingers in your ears. Just. Yuck.


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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#160

Post by TollandRCR » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:14 am

He knew that privacy laws would prevent him from releasing the original before he started the ruckus.I think his plan is what happened -- to give the issue more visibility without "resolving" it, since it's never gonna be resolved. =))Shirley you jest. Giving more visibility to a non-issue is just what the country needs now. However, I think the effect has been precisely as you describe it. I still think there is a way for Abercrombie to put this matter at least partly to rest: he can give an interview to some reporter about his personal knowledge of the President's parents. He could not avoid the birth certificate issue, but he could shrug it aside as foolish given what he personally knows about the parents and the baby. This could, perhaps, fingers-crossed, sway a few of those who harbor doubts.Otherwise, he has just made things worse.


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bob
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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#161

Post by bob » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:24 am

If Abercrombie really wanted to, he could request to personally inspect the documents, and then craft a legal statement (a la Fukino), e.g., "I've personally seen President Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate, and it says he was born in Hawaii."


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Loren
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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#162

Post by Loren » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:52 am

If Abercrombie really wanted to, he could request to personally inspect the documents, and then craft a legal statement (a la Fukino), e.g., "I've personally seen President Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate, and it says he was born in Hawaii."If he's genuinely screwed up on this and wants to make good, that's exactly what I think he should do. But if he wants to make the most of a single press release, he might as well use all the magic words and cover as many bases as he can.





Something along these lines:





"I, Governor Neil Abercrombie, accompanied by HDOH Director Neal Palafox, have personally held and inspected Barack Hussein Obama II's original Certificate of Live Birth from 1961, which is signed by the delivering doctor and is properly stored with the vital records of Hawaii, and can confirm that the Certificate affirmatively states that Barack Hussein Obama II was born at 7:24 p.m. on August 4, 1961 at Kapi'olani Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii to Stanley Ann Dunham Obama and Barack Hussein Obama Sr."



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#163

Post by Addie » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:57 am

Is that true? I don't believe Gov. Lingle ever said she personally inspected Obama's birth record, but that she assigned the proper party with legal authority to inspect it. I don't know that Governors have that authority themselves. Yesno?





If Abercrombie really wanted to, he could request to personally inspect the documents, and then craft a legal statement (a la Fukino), e.g., "I've personally seen President Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate, and it says he was born in Hawaii."


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bob
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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#164

Post by bob » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:24 pm

Is that true? I don't believe Gov. Lingle ever said she personally inspected Obama's birth record, but that she assigned the proper party with legal authority to inspect it. I don't know that Governors have that authority themselves. YesnoI don't see why not; the health director works for the governor.I don't think the State of Hawaii (including the governor) can specify which hospital* without violating HIPAA.* If any. ;)


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Epectitus
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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#165

Post by Epectitus » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:39 pm

If Abercrombie really wanted to, he could request to personally inspect the documents, and then craft a legal statement (a la Fukino), e.g., "I've personally seen President Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate, and it says he was born in Hawaii."I'm not so sure about that.





Lawful access to the records by their official custodians is one thing. Access by other government officials, even the governor? Not so much. Governor Lingle was pretty explicit that she had not seen the records herself, but instead had Drs. Fukino and Onaka take a look and report back to her. And I would further expect the Director of Health to push back on any request by the governor to do otherwise.





I do however think that Governor Abercrombie should stop improvising and take a planful approach to this issue. I know that it's impossible to make anything idiot proof, because idiots are so ingenious. But a set of clear and unambiguous questions posed to the Director should shortstop at least some of the spin.


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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#166

Post by twinx » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:58 pm







This is from the KQRS morning show from 1/20/2011. Their Hollywood reporter Mike Evans that knows Neil Abercrombie for Governor of Hawaii personally, gave an interesting story about the birth certificate situation

There's a pre-amble where Mike Evans talks about having known Abercrombie for decades, and how Abercrombie has always said he knew Obama as a little kid.





At around the one minute mark:





Mike Evans: "Well Neil promised me that when he became Governor he was going to cut through all the red tape. He was going to get Obama's Birth Certificate once and for all, and end this stupid controversy that he was not born in the United States





Host sniggers:





Mike Evans: Yesterday, talking to Neils office, Neil says that he searched everywhere using his power as Governor, at the Kapiolani Women's and Children's Hospital and Queens Hospital, the only places kids were born in Hawaii back when Barack was born.





There is no Barack Obama birth certificate in Hawaii





Host: Really?





Mike Evans: Absolutely no proof, at all, that he was born in Hawaii.





And so it goes on.



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#167

Post by Butterfly Bilderberg » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:39 pm

Good grief, what is it about birthers and their problem with reading comprehension? Miss Tickly goes on...and on...and on...about the AG not releasing the birth record, when it is obvious from the AP's story that the pronoun "him" refers to the Governor. Abercrombie was advised that Abercrombie could not release the records. Jeesh. Such a non-issue. Privacy laws prohibit the disclosure by ANY official.


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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#168

Post by PatGund » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:45 pm

I give Abercrombie an "A" for intent, a "D" for execution, and an "F-" for sheer "what the HELL were you, thinking???"



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#169

Post by TollandRCR » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:53 pm

If Abercrombie really wanted to, he could request to personally inspect the documents, and then craft a legal statement (a la Fukino), e.g., "I've personally seen President Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate, and it says he was born in Hawaii."I'm not so sure about that.





Lawful access to the records by their official custodians is one thing. Access by other government officials, even the governor? Not so much. Governor Lingle was pretty explicit that she had not seen the records herself, but instead had Drs. Fukino and Onaka take a look and report back to her. And I would further expect the Director of Health to push back on any request by the governor to do otherwise....That may have been Abercrombie's mistake. The idea that he as Governor could not see anything that he wanted to see might never have occurred to him.





Where was his staff when this brilliant idea occurred to him? They are supposed to be there to help avoid this kind of error.





Of course, Obama's staff probably told him it would be a really good idea for him and Michelle to go to Copenhagen to sell the Chicago Olympics.


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#170

Post by gentrfam » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:15 pm

The thing about cans of worms is that they are attractive to fish. So, we have Limbaugh talking about it again. Other conservative commentators talking about it. What we don't have is any evidence that it helps them or hurts us where it counts, the ballot box. I still think the birth certificate is the ultimate briar patch for Obama (see Uncle Remus). Please, please don't make me release my birth certificate which will say the exact same thing that my COLB said ( and have the hospital and doctor that have been widely reported)! Those birthers that succeeded at the polls were those that were able to avoid the stigma. Those candidates that were successfully tied to birthers (Hayworth) lost! If this were poker, it would be such a transparent bluff, pretending weakness, that no one would buy it. In litigation, you want to structure the case so that your opponent is talking about, first, things she cannot win or, if you can't get that, talking about issues that, even if she wins won't help her case. IOW, every minute Republicans spend on this is a minute they aren't spending on things that are just as specious but resonate better like "death panels."



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#171

Post by Old Grunt » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:39 pm

Is that true? I don't believe Gov. Lingle ever said she personally inspected Obama's birth record, but that she assigned the proper party with legal authority to inspect it. I don't know that Governors have that authority themselves. Yesno?





If Abercrombie really wanted to, he could request to personally inspect the documents, and then craft a legal statement (a la Fukino), e.g., "I've personally seen President Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate, and it says he was born in Hawaii."That's because Lingle is smarter than Abercrombie.





Or at least smart enough to avoid this nonsense.



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#172

Post by mimi » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:45 pm







This is from the KQRS morning show from 1/20/2011. Their Hollywood reporter Mike Evans that knows Neil Abercrombie for Governor of Hawaii personally, gave an interesting story about the birth certificate situation

There's a pre-amble where Mike Evans talks about having known Abercrombie for decades, and how Abercrombie has always said he knew Obama as a little kid.





At around the one minute mark:





Mike Evans: "Well Neil promised me that when he became Governor he was going to cut through all the red tape. He was going to get Obama's Birth Certificate once and for all, and end this stupid controversy that he was not born in the United States





Host sniggers:





Mike Evans: Yesterday, talking to Neils office, Neil says that he searched everywhere using his power as Governor, at the Kapiolani Women's and Children's Hospital and Queens Hospital, the only places kids were born in Hawaii back when Barack was born.





There is no Barack Obama birth certificate in Hawaii





Host: Really?





Mike Evans: Absolutely no proof, at all, that he was born in Hawaii.





And so it goes on.

Me thinks he knows Abercrombie like John Drew knows Obama.


He calls him "Neil Ambercrombie" on the video here. More than once, so it wasn't just a mistake one time. They do several segments with Evans introducing him as Ambercrombie each time:


[/break1]googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:roqw7MxDeasJ:www.evansradio.com/pod.html+abercrombie ... =firefox-a]http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... =firefox-a





It seems they do have some kind of history, but I don't think they have a relationship like Mike wants us to believe.





I could be wrong.





Oh, and Mike comes off as a douchebag.



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#173

Post by Loren » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:56 pm

There's a pre-amble where Mike Evans talks about having known Abercrombie for decades, and how Abercrombie has always said he knew Obama as a little kid...





Mike Evans: Yesterday, talking to Neils office, Neil says that he searched everywhere using his power as Governor, at the Kapiolani Women's and Children's Hospital and Queens Hospital, the only places kids were born in Hawaii back when Barack was born.





There is no Barack Obama birth certificate in HawaiiSo Evans' story is that he had a personal conversation with Abercrombie, wherein the governor of Hawaii, who last month expressly stated his desire to squelch birther rumors, explicitly told a media reporter that his investigation turned up no birth certificate whatsoever?





A reporter? Who has his own radio show? THAT is who he just happened to spill the beans to? And in direct conflict with his previously expressed intentions about PROVING Obama's birth in Hawaii?



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NYT: Hawaii’s Governor Takes On ‘Birthers’

#174

Post by mimi » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:05 pm

Loren, I think that using the term "reporter" is a stretch. But, yeah.



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