Gun Control

[Gregg]

[Dave from down under]

For it to matter...

It would have to be someone that a significant number of republicans would care about having been shot enough to risk upsetting the nuts/fanatics about..

Can you name one or more people that a significant number of republicans would care about having been shot?

I can't...

Remember that this is the people that thinks 2-3% mortality (1-3M people) dead from COVID is an acceptable trade off for open business and no masks.

[Gregg]

[Dave from down under]

They didn't care when Saint Ronnie was shot..

They wouldn't change if she was..
They would just as you say, attack those that they despise..
ie other Americans using her as an excuse..

If all their "loved" ones were shot..
they would just demand more guns to get revenge on the world that they fear/hate.

[keith]

When a TV star is in the crowd and gets killed, people will notice.

I'd bet real Confederate Dollars that 200 million people in this country don't even know this happened.

So, apparently, we need to sacrifice a Kardashian, for the good of the country. THEN people will get outraged.

Won't make a difference either.

There was a Congresswoman "in the crowd" once, and it didn't make any difference.

[Mr brolin]

I'm afraid, fundamentally, as long as politicians are drafting laws in this, as in many many areas, technology for example, it will be fucked up beyond all recognition and NEVER attain a rational goal.

Politicians, lets be honest, are fundamentally corrupt, they spend the majority of their time, pimping for funds to stay in power and with these bribes....sorry "contributions" are pushed towards the goals of the givers.

They will then spend some ridiculous amount of time trying to come up with a name for the bill, either with their names on it or some asinine acronym such as BANG...Bill Against Nasty Guns, or the like.

When they are eventually required to do something, they will be standing there with their hands outstretched for more money from individuals, lobbyists, PAC's, groups, foundations, think tanks and the like.

Then they will spend inordinate amounts of time crafting nonsensical definitions of "evil" features that must be banned...."it's for the children dont'cha know" as opposed to actual, useful, value add simple specifications.

Here are two images of firearms, both with multiple variations, in common ownership

SCARY.....BAD.....EVIL....BAN



CLASSIC....HUNTER....HERITAGE.....SAFE



Guess which family of firearms is usually regarded as having killed considerably more people both up close and personal and reach out and touch.?

The only way this COULD potentially work is if the politicians were completely stripped of any input other than vote...go ....no go and the definitions, recommendations, parameters etc were crafted by actual experts in the field, without an axe to grind, a hobby horse to ride or a donor to satisfy.

That's not going to happen because politicians can't give up an iota of their perceived power or authority.

End result will be one or more of

No action,
No bill passed, much finger pointing and partisan BS
A gutted bill that doesn't actually address any root causes
A cosmetic bill that will have any number of pork barrel additions that will have effective loopholes a-plenty
A bill that passes that is fundamentally against the rulings and findings of the SC and Constitutional interpretation that gets chewed to death in the courts
A bill that ends up passing the buck to the states, various, basically leaving us exactly where we are right now

Cynical....maybe.....Realistic.....more than likely

[Dave from down under]

If I wanted to kill a lot of civilians I’d choose the top one.

If I wanted to kill a lot of people in other trenches I’d use a howitzer..

[AndyinPA]

Public funding of elections would go a way to ending the official bribes to politicians, aka campaign contributions.

[Gregg]

[fierceredpanda]

Mr. Brolin: When is the last time you heard about someone robbing a store or murdering dozens with 1903 Springfield?

I suspect we all know the answer to that question.

And I don't give a shit about features or appearances. Exactly one component of a semi-automatic weapon is entirely responsible for turning rifles from objects you can use for recreation or defense into weapons of mass slaughter: The magazine. No hunter on the planet needs a 30-round capacity STANAG magazine loaded with 5.56 to bring down a whitetail buck. Nor do they need it even to defend their home against a burglar, because those 5.56 rounds are really excellent at going straight through drywall and into your neighbor's house, or your kid's room, or whatever happens to be behind whoever you're shooting at.

There is simply no reason for high-capacity magazines other than to kill people.

[Gregg]

[fierceredpanda]

Mr. Brolin: When is the last time you heard about someone robbing a store or murdering dozens with 1903 Springfield?

I suspect we all know the answer to that question.

And I don't give a shit about features or appearances. Exactly one component of a semi-automatic weapon is entirely responsible for turning rifles from objects you can use for recreation or defense into weapons of mass slaughter: The magazine. No hunter on the planet needs a 30-round capacity STANAG magazine loaded with 5.56 to bring down a whitetail buck. Nor do they need it even to defend their home against a burglar, because those 5.56 rounds are really excellent at going straight through drywall and into your neighbor's house, or your kid's room, or whatever happens to be behind whoever you're shooting at.

There is simply no reason for high-capacity magazines other than to kill people.

But they look so cool.

Honestly, its a distorted kind of pornography.

Yes.

Thompson submachine guns and BARs also look cool as hell, and yet Congress didn't have a problem banning them when John Dillinger, Clyde Barrow, and Bonnie Parker started knocking over banks with them.

(Yes, I know SA versions of those guns are legal now. My point still stands.)

[neeneko]

There is simply no reason for high-capacity magazines other than to kill people.

But they look so cool.

Honestly, its a distorted kind of pornography.

There is also the cautionary tale of the AR-15... an ugly gun that no one wanted until 'the liberals' got excited about how military it looked and put in that 'assault weapon ban'. After that it became a cultural icon.

High capacity magazines are kinda a pain to use in most cases, but the right sees it as something the left hates, and nothing is more important many of them than upsetting the left. It is their single metric.

[RVInit]

They didn't care when Saint Ronnie was shot..

They wouldn't change if she was..
They would just as you say, attack those that they despise..
ie other Americans using her as an excuse..

If all their "loved" ones were shot..
they would just demand more guns to get revenge on the world that they fear/hate.

Saint Ronnie himself supported the the assault weapons ban that was passed in 1993 or 1994. 77% of the American public supported the ban on manufacture and sale of these weapons. Unfortunately, it was only a 10 year ban and Republicans allowed it to expire. The statistics show the ban was effective and once it expired gun deaths once again skyrocketed. The statistics on this are pretty clear.

Even with the support of four presidents, the assault weapons vote in the House was a cliffhanger, passing 216-214 after one Indiana Democrat changed his “no” to a “yes.” Thirty-eight Republicans voted for the bill, including retiring House Minority Leader Robert Michel of Illinois.

For the next ten years, until the Republican-controlled House allowed the law to expire in 2004, the AK-47 and 18 other types of semiautomatic weapons could not be sold. During that decade, a researcher from the University of Massachusetts found that mass shootings totaling six or more deaths dropped. But once the ban was gone, they soared.

Now, two bills banning assault weapons are before Congress. They are co-sponsored by 195 Democrats and zero Republicans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ret ... gun-lobby/

[fierceredpanda]

Also, the second rifle in Mr. Brolin's post isn't a 1903 Springfield. It's a Lee-Enfield. Same difference, but still. I should know better.

[Dave from down under]

It being a fixed magazine also makes it harder for the untrained/unskilled to reload quickly even with stripper clips.

The bolt action is also something that slows down the kill rate for the untrained/unskilled*.

The weight and length are also not optimal for using it in urban areas against civilians.

Part of the arms race was
Bolt action -> Semi-automatic -> Full Automatic
From
Single shot to 100 round magazine
It is to allow more rounds to be fired quicker*.

So the modern semi or using one of those readily available conversion kit to full automatic with large capacity magazine would be my choice of fire arm to commit a massacre.
And the US history of modern massacres in the last 10 years show it to be the case.

* yes with training you can do a “mad minute”, but why bother when you can buy a semi with 100 round magazine that allows you to do the same?

[neeneko]

So the modern semi or using one of those readily available conversion kit to full automatic with large capacity magazine would be my choice of fire arm to commit a massacre.

Does it though? There was one guy who used bump stocks, but I can not recall any that used full auto, converted or otherwise. Most of them seem to have been whatever the shooter could get easily or on short notice.

[Dave from down under]

So the modern semi or using one of those readily available conversion kit to full automatic with large capacity magazine would be my choice of fire arm to commit a massacre.

Does it though? There was one guy who used bump stocks, but I can not recall any that used full auto, converted or otherwise. Most of them seem to have been whatever the shooter could get easily or on short notice.

If I was planning to be a mass murderer - I would

The trend to carrying more than one gun by the killers is so they can not be slowed by having to change magazines or clear jams or in case one is lost.. and may be they just want to see the difference a 9mm has to a 5.56 to a 7.62 at close range to a person..

[Dave from down under]

Paddock in LV - arsenal of weapons, associated equipment and ammunition included fourteen AR-15 rifles (all of which were equipped with bump stocks and twelve of which had 100-round magazines), eight AR-10-type rifles, a bolt-action rifle, and a revolver.

fired more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition from his 32nd floor suites in the Mandalay Bay Hotel, killing 60 people[a] and wounding 411, with the ensuing panic bringing the injury total to 867.

[Dave from down under]

And the weapons that Tarrant used to murder 51

Two AR-15 style rifles
12-gauge Mossberg 930 semiautomatic shotgun
12-gauge Ranger 870 pump-action shotgun
.357 Magnum Uberti lever-action rifle
.223-caliber Mossberg Predator bolt-action rifle

[Dave from down under]

Bryant
AR-15 with 30 round magazine mostly used
But also an AR-10.

[fierceredpanda]

Bryant
AR-15 with 30 round magazine mostly used
But also an AR-10.

Effectively the same gun in a different caliber (7.62 instead of 5.56).

[neonzx]

There is simply no reason for high-capacity magazines other than to kill people.

People? No, come on bro, deer can run fast -- sometimes takes many shots to bring them down.


/s

[fierceredpanda]

There is simply no reason for high-capacity magazines other than to kill people.

People? No, come on bro, deer can run fast -- sometimes takes many shots to bring them down.


/s

Having just gotten my car back from the shop and almost four grand worth of repairs (thank heavens for comprehensive insurance!) courtesy of a deer that came out of nowhere, I can attest to this.

The deer was fine, by the way. Staggered a bit and then ran off.

[Dave from down under]

I am so very glad that Australia grew up and stopped regarding guns as toys.

Of course we haven’t all, and there is too many gun nutz still here and they still have access to weapons of war..

But the chance of being shot in a street is minimal.

Unfortunately we exported one gun nut to NZ because our gun laws made it too hard for him to get the weapons that he wanted to use for his massacre - semi automatics