Donald: Impeachment Watch

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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#701

Post by Orlylicious »

Axios:
Alexi McCammond 6 hours ago
Democrats' internal impeachment polling memo

While national support for an impeachment inquiry is growing, it's not a clear winner for Democrats in the most competitive House districts just yet.

That's according to an internal impeachment polling memo, obtained by Axios, that was sent to House Democrats Thursday night.
Why it matters: Their vulnerable members this cycle are the ones who helped the party win the House in 2018 because they were in districts that flipped from Republican or that Trump won in 2016. They're not in the clear yet, as an impeachment inquiry is only "slightly favorable 49-48," per Democrats' memo.
https://www.axios.com/democrats-interna ... a357b.html#

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... -Memo.html


https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... y-Memo.pdf
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#702

Post by Panch Villlain »

neon, I don't. Even in the military you should keep your spine intact. Both could have ended their career much earlier and would have kept their honor.

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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#703

Post by Orlylicious »

Mattis and many who agreed to be part of this sh*tstorm thought they were helping the country by having some experienced leaders there. And at the beginning, it wasn't the chaos and madness it is today. That's the other side of the coin.
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#704

Post by TexasFilly »

neonzx wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:40 pm
But you have to remember General Mattis is career military. What would have him do? Start a coup?

Order in the military is maintained through a strict respect of the chain of command.

Gen. Colin Powell was in a similar place when the Bush/Cheney WH played him with bad WMD Intel so he would endorse invading Iraq.
Yes, but both Mattis and Powell were retired military. Both of these men are intelligent enough to discern between a military chain of command and either being played or remaining silent when the circumstances required loyalty to country and the Constitution.

I'm not the first person to think of this. Lawrence O'Donnell has had the IG for the NSA during W's administration on his show, twice. He perceptively noted the difficulty career military men have when placed in civilian roles (speaking specifically about the current Acting DNI): they no longer are in the "chain of command" but instead are expected to act with courage and honesty for the sake of the Country. I agree with that.
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#705

Post by neonzx »

Turtle wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:50 pm
Remember the time Donald was at this. He couldn't properly deliver the jokes and just ended up ranting at Hillary.
Yes, because he can't laugh. He doesn't understand humor. Truly, gut busting laughter. Show me video or a photo of him honestly laughing.

Maybe if we got him some really good weed and had him watch a movie like 'Mars Attacks' he might laugh? :P


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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#706

Post by voxpopuluxe »

neonzx wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:40 pm
But you have to remember General Mattis is career military. What would have him do? Start a coup?

Order in the military is maintained through a strict respect of the chain of command.
Mattis retired in 2012. As a civilian (ret.) he was offered a non-military position. It's an odd kind of honor which binds a man to a President he apparently believed to be incompetent or reprehensible, but permits him to mock that same President to an audience afterwards.
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#707

Post by TexasFilly »

Oh, look, the House Judiciary Committee has hired Joshua Matz for work on impeachment: https://www.law.com/nationallawjournal/ ... 0918151141

Matz co-wrote a recent book with Tribe about impeachment.
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#708

Post by voxpopuluxe »

Orlylicious wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:57 pm
Mattis and many who agreed to be part of this sh*tstorm thought they were helping the country by having some experienced leaders there. And at the beginning, it wasn't the chaos and madness it is today. That's the other side of the coin.
I'm sure that's what they'll all say in the years to come. They can count themselves fortunate that they'll only have to account for themselves in a TV studio, not at The Hague.
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#709

Post by RoadScholar »

neonzx wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:05 pm
Turtle wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:50 pm
Remember the time Donald was at this. He couldn't properly deliver the jokes and just ended up ranting at Hillary.
Yes, because he can't laugh. He doesn't understand humor. Truly, gut busting laughter. Show me video or a photo of him honestly laughing.
I read somewhere that humorlessness shows a strong correlation with sexual maladjustment.
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#710

Post by Jim »

RoadScholar wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:49 pm
neonzx wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:05 pm
Turtle wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:50 pm
Remember the time Donald was at this. He couldn't properly deliver the jokes and just ended up ranting at Hillary.
Yes, because he can't laugh. He doesn't understand humor. Truly, gut busting laughter. Show me video or a photo of him honestly laughing.
I read somewhere that humorlessness shows a strong correlation with sexual maladjustment.
Hence the reason he has to buy wives and incels love him so much.

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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#711

Post by Somerset »

voxpopuluxe wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:07 pm
Mattis Mocks Trump’s Bone Spurs and Love of Fast Food
What a bunch of vultures. Mattis could've said the same thing about him two years ago. Or he could've made the same point by declining the office of the Secretary of Defense. But he didn't have the brass to object to his boss then, he was too eager to gnaw on the carcass with the rest of them. Now he's being feted by people who will pay him to say what he should've said then. And honestly, the Alfred E. Smith Memorial Foundation Dinner isn't exactly covering themselves in glory here, either. The post-Trump years people! When everyone who gorged themselves on his pustulance gets the opportunity to laugh at it all while everyone else slaps them on the back and giggles along.
Jim Wright at Stonekettle Station agrees with you:
Draft dodger Donald Trump openly denigrating General James Mattis' military career in front of other senior military officers, who don't or won't protest this staggering injustice, and Mattis -- who is Trump's former Secretary of Defense and who could have spoken up then but didn't -- telling veiled jokes about Trump's sanity and competence at some Catholic charity ball without actually coming right out and saying it, is a sorry goddamned testament to the state of the Union.

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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#712

Post by p0rtia »

neonzx wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:40 pm
But you have to remember General Mattis is career military. What would have him do? Start a coup?

Order in the military is maintained through a strict respect of the chain of command.

Gen. Colin Powell was in a similar place when the Bush/Cheney WH played him with bad WMD Intel so he would endorse invading Iraq.
Not take the job. Speak up against the madness as an outside professional.
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#713

Post by ZekeB »

p0rtia wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:40 pm
Not take the job. Speak up against the madness as an outside professional.
That wouldn't matter. Trump would merely hire an incompetent yes man. Even if the guy only lasts six months, it's six months with someone trying to even the keel.
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#714

Post by voxpopuluxe »

ZekeB wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:07 pm
p0rtia wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:40 pm
Not take the job. Speak up against the madness as an outside professional.
That wouldn't matter. Trump would merely hire an incompetent yes man. Even if the guy only lasts six months, it's six months with someone trying to even the keel.
As opposed to the quasi-competent yes men he did hire?

It isn’t fruitful to dwell on what Mattis might’ve done, but it’s worth observing that that the belief that Mattis, or anyone, needed to join this administration to save it from itself is the same kind of exculpatory story Republicans (and some Democrats) have told themselves all along, when in fact it was always obvious what kind of administration it was going to be and what it was going to try to perpetrate. And it’s incredible that anyone who joined it or gave it support didn’t know that, too.
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#715

Post by p0rtia »

ZekeB wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:07 pm
p0rtia wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:40 pm
Not take the job. Speak up against the madness as an outside professional.
That wouldn't matter. Trump would merely hire an incompetent yes man. Even if the guy only lasts six months, it's six months with someone trying to even the keel.
Hey Zeke! I was answering the question of what I thought Mattis should have done, given the constraints of military norms--not what difference it would have made if he had refused the job.

But on that note, I take it that you side with the Lindsey Graham approach--work with 45 to try to lessen the number of horrible things he does. We disagree on that (obviously), but I'm curious to know if you would have taken a job in the administration, with what you knew about 45 beforehand?
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#716

Post by Orlylicious »

So we know Addison is going to do his best to fu*k us over again, but NY Times explains why he has to at least pretend.
As Inquiry Widens, McConnell Is Said to See Impeachment Trial as Inevitable
Senator Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, is expected to approach any impeachment trial with an emphasis on protecting his Senate majority.
By Carl Hulse Oct. 18, 2019

WASHINGTON — It was only a few weeks ago that the top Senate Republican was hinting that his chamber would make short work of impeachment. But this week, Senator Mitch McConnell sat his colleagues down over lunch in the Capitol and warned them to prepare for an extended impeachment trial of President Trump. According to people who were there, he came equipped with a PowerPoint presentation, :shock: [Note: Maybe Orly Taitz was there managing the PPT?] complete with quotes from the Constitution, as he schooled fellow senators on the intricacies of a process he portrayed as all but inevitable.

Few Republicans are inclined to convict Mr. Trump on charges that he abused his power to enlist Ukraine in an effort to smear his political rivals. Instead, Mr. McConnell sees the proceedings as necessary to protect a half a dozen moderates in states like Maine, Colorado and North Carolina who face re-election next year and must show voters they are giving the House impeachment charges a serious review. It’s people like Senator Susan Collins of Maine who will be under immense political pressure as they decide the president’s fate. “To overturn an election, to decide whether or not to convict a president is about as serious as it gets,” Ms. Collins said. [Note: I'm so sick of her.]
***
The mood among Republicans on Capitol Hill has shifted from indignant to anxious as a parade of administration witnesses has submitted to closed-door questioning by impeachment investigators and corroborated central elements of the whistle-blower complaint that sparked the inquiry.
***
Mr. McConnell, his allies said, regards the impeachment fight in much the same way as he did the struggle last year to confirm Judge Brett M. Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court, in which he was primarily concerned with protecting his Senate majority by insulating vulnerable incumbents. Then, as now, they said, Mr. McConnell is focused on keeping Republicans as united as possible, while allowing those with reservations about Mr. Trump’s conduct and their own political considerations to justify their decision to their constituents. “I think he will play it straight,” said Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas and a close McConnell ally, who noted his party’s narrow voting margin. “I don’t think he has any alternative. When you are operating with 53 you have thin margins and you can’t jam anybody or you end up with undesirable consequences.”
***
Mr. McConnell has told colleagues he expects the House to impeach Mr. Trump quickly, possibly by Thanksgiving, an educated hunch based on the pace of the inquiry so far and Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s decision to keep the inquiry narrowly focused on Mr. Trump’s dealings with Ukraine. He plans to move swiftly too, he told colleagues, using the approach of Christmas to force the Senate to complete its work before the beginning of 2020. Yet an impeachment trial is a spectacle that is by its nature unpredictable, and most of the senators who will act as jurors were not around for the last one, of Bill Clinton in 1999. Mr. McConnell reminded senators that Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. would preside over the trial, and would have wide latitude in handling motions that might be made, including any motion to dismiss the charges that Republicans might try to put forward to short circuit the process.
***
Just 15 senators remain in office from the time Mr. Clinton was put on trial. Mr. McConnell warned them of the weight of the trial, where they can be required to be on the floor all afternoon six days a week without speaking — a major challenge for senators who relish their chances to be heard. “It will mean day after day sitting in chamber, listening to the two sides, writing questions for them to answer that go through the chief justice,” said Ms. Collins, one of the Republicans who voted to acquit Mr. Clinton 20 years ago. “Members who have not been through this before will find it is a great deal of work.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/18/us/p ... e=Homepage

Just watching them have to sit quietly six days a week might be worth it. ;) kidding.


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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#717

Post by Chilidog »

“It will mean day after day sitting in chamber, listening to the two sides, writing questions for them to answer that go through the chief justice,” said Ms. Collins, one of the Republicans who voted to acquit Mr. Clinton 20 years ago. “Members who have not been through this before will find it is a great deal of work.”
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#718

Post by Gregg »

Its a left handed threat to the ones running for President. "Give up campaigning, you're going to be here 6 days a week."
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#719

Post by Jez »

For those of us that were watching Sesame Street and/or did not have the hand eye coordination to eat spaghetti without wearing it during the early 70s, did the Nixon impeachment take this long? I know he resigned before the House could actually impeach him, but did the House investigation take a long time? Or do I just have Trump exhaustion and want this nightmare to be over?
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#720

Post by TexasFilly »

Jez wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:27 am
For those of us that were watching Sesame Street and/or did not have the hand eye coordination to eat spaghetti without wearing it during the early 70s, did the Nixon impeachment take this long? I know he resigned before the House could actually impeach him, but did the House investigation take a long time? Or do I just have Trump exhaustion and want this nightmare to be over?
It's been less than a month. Remember, during Watergate there was an independent prosecutor, Archibald Cox, whom Nixon ordered fired on October 20, 1973. Cox had a grand jury in place, so much of the investigation was done by the grand jury. Cox was succeeded by Leon Jaworski. Nixon did not resign until August of 1974.

That's the Cliff Notes version, lots of other stuff was going on, including the Senate Select Committee, and ultimately the House Judiciary Committee.
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#721

Post by p0rtia »

The Senate held hearing during the summer of 1973. They were incredibly gripping, as day by day, one after another, the players in the Watergate saga appeared in public and lied, and lied, and lied. And some told the truth. Butterfield, Dean, Halderman, Erlichman, Colson, Strachan. Mitchell. It kills me that complete video of those hearings does not exist.

That summer was my political awakening--the first time I became aware that corruption hadn't ended with McCarthy, as I fondly believed. I was 20 and had voted for Nixon, my first experience voting, the year before.

House Impeachment hearings started the next year, and had a less monumental effect, as most of the info was out by then. Listening to Republicans continuing to defend Nixon was just frustrating. As we know, Nixon resigned before the House could vote on impeachment.
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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#722

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

Alexander Butterfield testified during the hearings that there was a secret recording system, but House investigators were first tipped off about the recording system in an interview with Lawrence Higby, "Haldeman's Haldeman." Higby was a UCLA grad. When I was an undergraduate I jousted with Higby over the election of a new Associated Student Body President named Robert Michaels, whom Higby had backed. My small insurgent group ("the Rebel Alliance") thought Michaels was corrupt and using Associated Student Body funds improperly. Higby went on to fame and fortune -- according to Wikipedia. Michaels got a J.D. from UCLA Law School and was promptly subject to discipline from the State Bar. He resigned a dozen years later with disciplinary charges pending, never to be heard from again.

I followed the Watergate Hearings very closely. In 1972 I was on Ed Muskie's national campaign staff and sent to Dallas-Ft. Worth to troubleshoot. It turns out the campaign was being subjected to dirty tricks by Donald Segretti and his group of ratf*ckers. I was interviewed by the House Select Committee but never called as a witness.

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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#723

Post by Volkonski »

Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#724

Post by Orlylicious »

That's incorrect from CBS News, there was a vote, they tabled it. That's surprisingly sloppy.

Stern that's awesome, great story. Didn't you play the same role in Rome's Comitia Tributa? ;)

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Re: Donald: Impeachment Watch

#725

Post by busterbunker »

Sekrit Stuffs!
I was 8 years old in the summer of '72, so take this with a grain of salt. My dad taught history and politics and had me clued into the news long before that. The break-in occurred that June. It was in the news, and a minority of us asked "what's up with that?" A couple of months later we were on summer vacation in the Black Hills of South Dakota, and tracked down the cabin where McGovern was staying while he deliberated the Eagleton mess. More dirty tricks.

I sent McGovern's campaign $5 that I had had earmarked for a baseball glove. Got a nice note back. This is when people wrote with typewriters and signed their letters themselves. I might be able to dig it up. McGovern was a good dude.

The subject got buried before the election that November and Nixon won in a landslide, of course. It was a couple years until the trials heated up. In the meantime, dad was protesting the Vietnam war which cost him his job. It was a good lesson. I have had no trust in politics, government, or even democracy itself, right from the start. That saved me a lot of pain later in life.

So I think the answer to the question is yes. Impeachment can take some time. Dad gave me a cigar when Tricky Dick finally resigned, but the whole deal left a bad taste in both of our mouths.

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