Breaking News: National Intelligence Whistle Blower

[tek]

It could be me but already lame damage control seems lamer and lamer.

They're not even trying.

[Slim Cognito]

Forgive my cluelessness but are we talking about Biden damage control or trump damage control?

[Dolly]

It could be me but already lame damage control seems lamer and lamer.

Yes, I hope they use more rope.

If Giuliani was a Democrat, the RWNJ would be screaming about the Logan Act.

And Pompeo's statement:
"I do think if VP Biden behaved inappropriately...we need to get to the bottom of that"

Where the hell has he been and what has he been doing?
from Wikipedia

Michael Richard Pompeo (..born December 30, 1963) is an American politician and attorney who, since April 2018, has served as the 70th United States secretary of state. He is a former United States Army officer and was director of the Central Intelligence Agency from January 2017 until April 2018.

Pompeo was a member of the United States House of Representatives from 2011 to 2017, representing Kansas's 4th congressional district. He was a Kansas representative on the Republican National Committee and member of the Italian American Congressional Delegation. Pompeo is also a member of the Tea Party movement within the Republican Party.[3]

Member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Kansas's 4th district In Office; January 3, 2011 – January 23, 2017

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pompeo

[Kendra]

It could be me but already lame damage control seems lamer and lamer.

Me too.

[Addie]

Cross-posting

Axios

Trump confirms he discussed Biden with Ukrainian president

President Trump confirmed to reporters on the White House South Lawn Sunday that he discussed Joe Biden and his son during a phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on July 25.

"The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, with largely corruption — all of the corruption taking place — largely the fact that we don't want our people like Vice President Biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the Ukraine and Ukraine has got a lot of problems. The new president is saying that he's going to be able to rid the country of corruption, and I said that would be a great thing, we had a great conversation."

Why it matters: Trump said on Friday that "it doesn't matter" what he discussed with Zelensky, but appeared to be more forthcoming about the call on Sunday as reports in the New York Times, Washington Post and Wall Street Journal continue to reveal new details. Some have speculated that Trump withheld military aid to Ukraine until Zelensky promised to investigate Biden and his son, but the president was adamant on Sunday that there was "no quid pro quo."

Nonetheless, Democrats have demanded that Trump release the transcript of the phone call to prove he has nothing to hide. Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) said that the "existence of an explicit quid pro quo" isn't necessary, and that if Trump "demanded a foreign government do his political bidding, that’s when he crossed the critical threshold."

House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), meanwhile, said that if the allegations that Trump pressured the Ukrainian government to investigate Biden are true, then Democrats may have no other choice than to impeach him.

[pipistrelle]

Forgive my cluelessness but are we talking about Biden damage control or trump damage control?

Individual-1.

[Dolly]

Giuliani, Fox's Roberts clash on appropriateness of Ukraine contacts

President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani sparred with “Fox News Sunday” guest host John Roberts on Sunday on the appropriateness of asking Ukrainian officials to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden.

Roberts played a clip of Giuliani telling CNN’s Chris Cuomo last week that he had never made such a request before later in the interview saying, “Of course I did.”

"The 'no' was obviously wrong. I corrected it immediately," Giuliani said on Sunday. "What they’re trying to say is I went there for a political mission to kind of get Joe Biden in trouble. Ridiculous. I went there as a lawyer defending his client."

Giuliani continued to insist the coverage should focus on what he claimed were suspicious business dealings involving the former vice president's son Hunter Biden instead of Trump and himself.

"I have all the contacts between Democrats and the Ukraine," Giuliani said. "When the rest of this comes out and we look at China and the $1.5 billion that the Biden family took out of China while that guy was negotiating for us, this will be a lot bigger than Spiro Agnew."

Pressed by Roberts on whether it was appropriate for him to be seeking dirt on Joe Biden while acting as a representative of the president, Giuliani responded, “That’s the way you characterize it.”

“That’s the way it appears to line up,” Roberts replied before Giuliani countered, “That’s the way the pro-Biden media lines it up.”

Despite Giuliani’s repeated implications that the firing of former General Prosecutor of Ukraine Viktor Shokin was politically motivated, Roberts said that he was dismissed amid corruption allegations and that his successor, Yuriy Lutsenko, found no evidence of wrongdoing on Hunter Biden’s part.

“This is going to get bigger and bigger, and everything I say I can prove,” Giuliani said.

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-tal ... e-contacts

[Dolly]

Trump says he will consider releasing transcript of Ukraine call

President Trump told reporters on Sunday that he would consider releasing a transcript of his call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, which is said to be the subject of an intelligence community whistleblower complaint.

“We’ll make a determination about how to release it, releasing it, saying what we said,” Trump said in Houston, defending his conversation with Zelensky as “perfect.” His remarks came hours after the president suggested that he had discussed Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden during the call.

“The problem is, when you’re speaking to foreign leaders, you don’t want foreign leaders to feel that they shouldn’t be speaking openly,” Trump added. “And the same thing with an American president. You want them to be able to express themselves without knowing that every single word was going to be going out and going out all over the world.”

Trump reiterated that he would “talk” about releasing details from the call, adding, “but you have to be a little bit shy about doing that.” Trump went on to say he knows a lot of people are listening on his phone calls, including “intelligence people,” but that he gives them permission to do so.
<SNIP>

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... kraine-cal

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ine-228151

Trump Didn’t Bribe Ukraine. It’s Actually Worse Than That.
Mislabeling what the president has done could make impeachment more difficult to achieve.

Pursuing criminal cases that won’t stand legal scrutiny, or arguing that Trump has violated a criminal statute, risks undermining that goal.

First, it gives the false impression that this is something the criminal justice system can deal with. But the criminal system is not built to handle misconduct by a president who is acting corruptly through the use of his immense constitutional powers in this manner.

Second, it suggests that if critics can point out that it is not really bribery or extortion, then it is not a huge problem, which is not true. This is already happening, as allies of the president assert that there was no explicit quid pro quo.

Third, it may give the public a false impression about what happened. Impeachment in many respects is a political act, and that means Congress needs public support to pursue it. Anything that confuses or fails to persuade the public is therefore counterproductive.

Finally, it understates the magnitude of the alleged misconduct. Labeling Trump’s alleged conduct as “bribery” or “extortion” cheapens what is alleged to have occurred and does not capture what makes it wrongful. It’s not a crime—it’s a breach of the president’s duty not to use the powers of the presidency to benefit himself. And he invited a foreign nation to influence the 2020 election on the heels of a nearly three-year investigation that proved Russia had tried to influence the last presidential election.

No one should expect law enforcement to act if our elected representatives are unwilling to do so.

[Dolly]

I keep wondering about this.

.......

Trump’s communications with foreign leader are part of whistleblower complaint that spurred standoff between spy chief and Congress, former officials say
By Greg Miller, Ellen Nakashima and Shane Harris
September 18, 2019 at 8:56 p.m. EDT

The whistleblower complaint that has triggered a tense showdown between the U.S. intelligence community and Congress involves President Trump’s communications with a foreign leader, according to two former U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

Trump’s interaction with the foreign leader included a “promise” that was regarded as so troubling that it prompted an official in the U.S. intelligence community to file a formal whistleblower complaint with the inspector general for the intelligence community, said the officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

It was not immediately clear which foreign leader Trump was speaking with or what he pledged to deliver, but his direct involvement in the matter has not been previously disclosed. It raises new questions about the president’s handling of sensitive information and may further strain his relationship with U.S. spy agencies. One former official said the communication was a phone call.
<SNIP>

Lots more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

[Foggy]

I keep thinking, we don't really know it was a promise to the president of the Ukraine. Everybody is assuming that's who it was, and that the promise had something to do with Joe Biden. But that hasn't been totally confirmed yet, AFAIK.

And since Twitler is going along with it, I suspect he's using misdirection and misinformation again. If the whistle-blower report is really about something else, he'd love to make it all about Biden and the Ukraine.

[Turtle]

It won't be long before most people believe the whistle-blower complaint was about Biden.

[TexasFilly]

I think there's much more to the story. Like the intelligence part. Sure, calls between a (normal) president and foreign leaders might be confidential, but I don't see this as highly classified information. So, I think there's more there. That thought is bolstered by Trump now "agreeing" to release the readout (I doubt he will in its entirety).

[Slim Cognito]

Trump says he will consider releasing transcript of Ukraine call

President Trump told reporters on Sunday that he would consider releasing a transcript of his call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, which is said to be the subject of an intelligence community whistleblower complaint.
...

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... kraine-cal

Do I see a Sharpie-written transcription on yellow legal pad in our future?

[spoil]

41TLnICBgzL._US500_.jpg

[/spoil]

[Slim Cognito]

Giuliani, Fox's Roberts clash on appropriateness of Ukraine contacts
...

“This is going to get bigger and bigger, and everything I say I can prove,” Giuliani said.

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-tal ... e-contacts

If Rudy can already prove the Bidens are criminals, what do they need Ukraine for?

[SLQ]

Giuliani, Fox's Roberts clash on appropriateness of Ukraine contacts

President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani sparred with “Fox News Sunday” guest host John Roberts on Sunday on the appropriateness of asking Ukrainian officials to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden.

Roberts played a clip of Giuliani telling CNN’s Chris Cuomo last week that he had never made such a request before later in the interview saying, “Of course I did.”

"The 'no' was obviously wrong. I corrected it immediately," Giuliani said on Sunday. "What they’re trying to say is I went there for a political mission to kind of get Joe Biden in trouble. Ridiculous. I went there as a lawyer defending his client."

Giuliani continued to insist the coverage should focus on what he claimed were suspicious business dealings involving the former vice president's son Hunter Biden instead of Trump and himself.

"I have all the contacts between Democrats and the Ukraine," Giuliani said. "When the rest of this comes out and we look at China and the $1.5 billion that the Biden family took out of China while that guy was negotiating for us, this will be a lot bigger than Spiro Agnew."

Pressed by Roberts on whether it was appropriate for him to be seeking dirt on Joe Biden while acting as a representative of the president, Giuliani responded, “That’s the way you characterize it.”

“That’s the way it appears to line up,” Roberts replied before Giuliani countered, “That’s the way the pro-Biden media lines it up.”

Despite Giuliani’s repeated implications that the firing of former General Prosecutor of Ukraine Viktor Shokin was politically motivated, Roberts said that he was dismissed amid corruption allegations and that his successor, Yuriy Lutsenko, found no evidence of wrongdoing on Hunter Biden’s part.

“This is going to get bigger and bigger, and everything I say I can prove,” Giuliani said.

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-tal ... e-contacts

Defending Trump against what???

[SuzieC]

I keep thinking, we don't really know it was a promise to the president of the Ukraine. Everybody is assuming that's who it was, and that the promise had something to do with Joe Biden. But that hasn't been totally confirmed yet, AFAIK.

And since Twitler is going along with it, I suspect he's using misdirection and misinformation again. If the whistle-blower report is really about something else, he'd love to make it all about Biden and the Ukraine.

In my opinion, they are using misdirection and admitting to the Trump call with President of Ukraine because the real story is much worse. Call was Trump and Putin wherein Trump promised Putin quid pro quo if Putin threatened Ukraine if it didn't dig up dirt on Bidens.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

My immediate thought at the time was it probably was Putin.

[pipistrelle]

I agree there's more there, and Giuliani's performances are sealing that deal for me.

[Suranis]

We have a resounding A journalist may have joined the dots on the whistleblower complaint.

Trump speaks w/ Putin: 7/31/19

Trump requests list of top US spies: 8/3/19

Russia publishes name & biography of a man living near DC: 9/10/19

Trump says we should not use foreign spies: 9/10/19

#WhistleblowerComplaint is filed re: alarming “promise” to foreign leader: 8/12/19

Dot-joining thread here.

[pipistrelle]

We have a resounding A journalist may have joined the dots on the whistleblower complaint.

Trump speaks w/ Putin: 7/31/19

Trump requests list of top US spies: 8/3/19

Russia publishes name & biography of a man living near DC: 9/10/19

Trump says we should not use foreign spies: 9/10/19

#WhistleblowerComplaint is filed re: alarming “promise” to foreign leader: 8/12/19

Dot-joining thread here.

This makes a lot more sense from an alarming national security perspective.

[fierceredpanda]

I can't find it now, but someone on my Twitter feed made a very good point that the way this has played out has, in some ways, gone some distance to justify why Edward Snowden released what he released in the way that he released it. Of course there's a lot of just criticism* of what Snowden did, but the easiest response has always been that if he had that big of a problem with what the NSA was doing, he should have raised those concerns through the proper channels. Well, how are those proper channels working out? Again, I'm not defending the man, but you can kind of see why someone in the Intelligence Community would not trust their superiors to handle whistleblowing in the manner prescribed by law, since ultimately the whole thing will come down to whether POTUS deems the material fit for Congressional consumption, apparently.

Given these events, what exactly do we expect would happen if Trump decided to order the NSA to actively spy on, say, Elizabeth Warren's campaign? Whistleblower complaints will go nowhere, as we have seen. Mass resignations will not happen. And a lot of NSA is military, who are duty-bound to obey the orders of their Commander-in-Chief. So it's back to the 1970s with us, and the national security apparatus being weaponized against domestic political opponents. If only someone had seen this coming!

*I've had a change of heart re: Snowden, from a moderate sympathizer to a firm believer that he's a hopeless naif who was manipulated by an unprincipled glory-seeking journalist (Glenn Greenwald) to the advantage of Russia. I think my posts early in my tenure here bear that out, but I wanted to be fully transparent that I have gone back and forth on this issue. And I remain deeply skeptical that there are any meaningful checks on the Intelligence Community at all. Congressional oversight has been rendered meaningless. All we're left with are the scruples of individual human beings, who can be replaced with more pliant folks at a moment's notice. I'm not reassured.

[Slim Cognito]

I can't find it now, but someone on my Twitter feed made a very good point that the way this has played out has, in some ways, gone some distance to justify why Edward Snowden released what he released in the way that he released it. Of course there's a lot of just criticism* of what Snowden did, but the easiest response has always been that if he had that big of a problem with what the NSA was doing, he should have raised those concerns through the proper channels. Well, how are those proper channels working out? .....

Mind blown.

That does put things in a different light.

[TexasFilly]

Except that Snowden was doing his dirty work during the Obama Administration. By all accounts, this is the first time a whistleblower complaint has been kept from Congress.

[Suranis]

Yep. This is a lawless administration. Obama was about Rule of law.

ANd Snowden would not have presurised WaPo to publish without checking out his information if he was all about the truth.

Plus, anyone that has not made the connection between Snowdens laptops of info and the hacking of the 2016 Election hasn't been thinking about it. It's very possible that he is directly responsible for Trump, "pure motivations" or not. Needless to say, the guy can rot for all I care.