Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

TexasFilly
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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1451

Post by TexasFilly » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:42 pm

CNN has all kinds of info about what David Holmes is saying. Including stuff Bolton said. Yikes!

(Watching live online)


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1452

Post by bob » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:46 pm

Jeffrey wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:37 pm
Turtle wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:19 pm
Jeffrey wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:17 pm
Well I meant who can confirm the threat was made?
Sondland, John Bolton, Mike Pompeo
Are any of them likely to admit it?
No.
Why not get someone on the Ukraine end to testify?
Uhhh ... 'cuz Ukraine is a sovereign country?


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1453

Post by p0rtia » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:46 pm

Zelensky says on the July 25 phone call that he's going to do it:

"First of a11 I understand and I'm knowledgeable about the situation. Sine we have won· the absolute majority in our Parliament; the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate, who will be approved by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September. He or she will look into the situation, specifically to the company that you-mentioned in this issue. The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case. "

Bolding mine.


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1454

Post by RVInit » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:48 pm

TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:42 pm
CNN has all kinds of info about what David Holmes is saying. Including stuff Bolton said. Yikes!

(Watching live online)
I am watching CNN, too. Wow.

I agree that Sondland either needs to exercise his 5th amendment rights, or he needs to come completely clean and become the star witness that brings down Trump. I don't really think he can do anything in between. But IANAL, so I could be wrong on this. Just my impression of the situation he is clearly in.


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1455

Post by TexasFilly » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:49 pm

Wow, now two other people besides Holmes heard the call!


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1456

Post by RVInit » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:52 pm

TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:49 pm
Wow, now two other people besides Holmes heard the call!
Holy cow.
Edit: Just heard even more of Holme's opening statement.
If we were in normal times, Trump would resign tonight. Sadly, we aren't.


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1457

Post by SLQ » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:53 pm

much ado wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:28 pm
TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:26 pm
:snippity:
According to David Holmes’s opening statement obtained by @mkraju and @jeremyherb, Holmes could hear Sondland tell Trump on the phone that President Zelensky “loves your ass.”

Trump responded “So, he’s gonna do the investigation?”

“Sondland; “He’s gonna do it."
So Zelensky changed his mind? Interesting.
I believe the CNN interview was scheduled for a certain date. But the wistleblower complaint became public. Two days before the scheduled CNN interview, trump released the military aid to Ukraine. The CNN interview was then cancelled. It was no longer necessary and the Ukranians were able to dodge that bullet.


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1458

Post by TexasFilly » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:55 pm

Michael McFaul, former Ambassador to Russia, said earlier today David Holmes was a "rising star" in the State Department, now Trump and his thugs will try to ruin his life.

Now former FBI counsel James Baker is agreeing with Stern and me that Sondland will take the Fifth.


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1459

Post by SLQ » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:56 pm

See CNN host was set to interview Ukrainian President until scandal took shape
The New York Times reported on Thursday that Zelensky had planned to announce an investigation into Trump's political rivals during a September interview on CNN, but those plans had been scrapped once Trump released promised security aid. Zakaria told CNN's Brooke Baldwin on Thursday that the interview had been months in the making, but it fell apart when the Ukraine scandal began to unfold -- though CNN did not cancel it.


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1460

Post by TexasFilly » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:57 pm

Sondland has to go get a few more gold bricks to pay his lawyer.


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1461

Post by Addie » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:24 pm

Daily Beast: State Dept. Aide Says He Overheard Sondland Tell Trump Ukraine President Would Do ‘Anything’

David Holmes reportedly testified that he overheard Sondland tell Trump the Ukrainian president would do anything because he “loves your a**.”
Lawfare: Opening Statement of David Holmes in Impeachment Inquiry

2140 001 (PDF)
NBC News: Holmes testifies he overheard Trump ask Sondland about investigations

Holmes “has some specific quotes," a Democratic lawmaker said, that left "no doubt what the president of the United States was saying.”
Politifact - Pants On Fire: Trump inaccurately disparages Yovanovitch in Somalia, Ukraine
NBC News - Jonathan Allen: The devastating day Trump's presidency came into sharp focus — in Congress, the White House and in court

Analysis: Yovanovitch testified, Roger Stone was convicted, Trump tweeted. It's all right there.
Daily Beast: Republicans Thought Yovanovitch Would Be a Pushover. She Beat Them Up Instead

The fired U.S. ambassador showed why Trump needed her out of the embassy in Kyiv before pressuring the Ukrainians for dirt on his political opponents.
Esquire - Charlie Pierce: If There's a Gun Left That Isn't Smoking, I Can't Find It

The dominoes are stacked up and lead straight to the Oval Office now.



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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1462

Post by Somerset » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:29 pm

Jeffrey wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:37 pm
Turtle wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:19 pm
Jeffrey wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:17 pm
Well I meant who can confirm the threat was made?
Sondland, John Bolton, Mike Pompeo
Are any of them likely to admit it? Why not get someone on the Ukraine end to testify?
Sondland, possibly. Bolton, probably.

Lots of problems having foreign nationals testify in a hearing like this.



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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1463

Post by Orlylicious » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:41 pm

Another wild day. Here's Holmes' statement:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... 40-001.pdf


Glad the GOP focused so much on phone and email security, clearly they are trying to set an example. :brickwallsmall:


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1465

Post by Addie » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:52 pm

New York Times - Nicholas Fandos
Embassy Official Confirms Trump Asked About Ukraine Investigations

The official, David Holmes, also said that he was told President Trump cared more about the investigations than about Ukraine.

WASHINGTON — An official from the United States Embassy in Kiev confirmed to House impeachment investigators on Friday that he overheard a call between President Trump and a top American diplomat in July in which the president inquired about investigations he wanted from Ukraine, according to three people familiar with the testimony.

The official, David Holmes, testified privately that he was at a restaurant in Ukraine’s capital when he heard Mr. Trump during a cellphone call loudly asking Gordon D. Sondland, the American ambassador to the European Union, if Ukraine’s president had agreed to conduct investigations into his political rivals. Mr. Sondland, who was in Kiev for meetings with top Ukrainian officials at the time, replied in the affirmative.

Mr. Sondland told Mr. Trump that President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine “loves your ass,” and would conduct the investigations and “anything you ask him to,” according to two of the people, who described his testimony on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss it.

After the call ended, Mr. Holmes asked it if was true that the president did not care about Ukraine, the people said. The ambassador replied that Mr. Trump cared only about the “big stuff,” like investigations that his personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani was pushing for, because they affected him personally.
Adding:
CNN: Ambassador told Trump that Ukrainian President would do 'anything you ask him to,' official testifies



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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1466

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:01 pm

While Sondland should assert his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself, he may try to clean up the mess he has made on aisle 5 by spilling the beans. I think he may do that since refusing to testify at this point is politically impossible. Sometimes, correcting one's testimony during a proceeding is sufficient to avoid perjury charges. That's a tough sell here since he is only changing his testimony (for a second time!) after other testimony has come out which impeaches his prior testimony.

Sondland may think (and his lawyers may believe) he has one last chance to avoid being charged with perjury during the Biden/Warren/Buttigieg Administration.

There is not enough popcorn on the planet for Wednesday! Sondland can sink the Trump Presidency. And he may have to imperil himself in doing so. But, as we know, the hotel business is dog eat dog.



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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1467

Post by SLQ » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 pm

I think it's also a bit tricky. He's already testified about these subjects, so can he take the Fifth? But then, further testimony goes to perjury, which is a new crime, so maybe he can?


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1468

Post by Turtle » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:36 pm

This is the kind of stuff that makes Moscow Mitch really think about having a secret vote for conviction. Not because the stuff coming out is so bad, but because no one outside the 3 stooges knew this could possibly come out, so they couldn't prepare for it (they're still trying to figure out how to handle the stuff that came out a month ago).

He hires only the best, folks.



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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1469

Post by p0rtia » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:37 pm

Do they still do use immunity? Time to strike a John Dean deal?

Man, the Watergate memories are flooding in. My first glimpse into the realities of power. I was 19.


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1470

Post by TexasFilly » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:00 pm

SLQ wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 pm
I think it's also a bit tricky. He's already testified about these subjects, so can he take the Fifth? But then, further testimony goes to perjury, which is a new crime, so maybe he can?
Yes, he can still take the 5th. Prior testimony on the subject is not a bar to invoking that privilege.


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1471

Post by Maybenaut » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:23 pm

SLQ wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 pm
I think it's also a bit tricky. He's already testified about these subjects, so can he take the Fifth? But then, further testimony goes to perjury, which is a new crime, so maybe he can?
I don’t think his prior testimony operates as a complete waiver. I think he can invoke.


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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1472

Post by NMgirl » Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:32 am

TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:57 pm
Sondland has to go get a few more gold bricks to pay his lawyer.
:thumbs: On the “gold bricks” reference.

Since you’re an attorney, what do you think happened here twixt Sondland and Luskin? Did Sondland simply lie to his attorneys about the extent of his contacts with trump :?: Shirley they would have steered him away from lying under oath at a Congressional impeachment hearing, which Sondland clearly and spectacularly did. :?: :?: :?:



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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1473

Post by Orlylicious » Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:57 am

CNN is still on live at 12:54am ET, they brought Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto back. Anderson covered 11pm-midnight with a huge panel. Wolf was on in the morning, they're going wall to wall.

ETA: Poppy and Jim are doing another hour, 1-2am ET. Dang, Congressional Correspondent Phil Mattingly is hot! And really seems like one of the good guys. Great career so far. Some background at https://wealtholino.com/phil-mattingly-net-worth-bio/


2009:

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Last month:

Phil 2019.JPG
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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1474

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:12 am

TexasFilly wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:49 pm
Wow, now two other people besides Holmes heard the call!
:shock: That restaurant seems to be a hotspot for US diplomats. One can only assume that certain other nations are providing their secretive contacts with a handsome budget ...



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Re: Intelligence/Judiciary Impeachment Investigation: Trump Obstruction; Suborning Perjury; Whistleblower(s)

#1475

Post by SLQ » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:34 am

Maybenaut wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:23 pm
SLQ wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:04 pm
I think it's also a bit tricky. He's already testified about these subjects, so can he take the Fifth? But then, further testimony goes to perjury, which is a new crime, so maybe he can?
I don’t think his prior testimony operates as a complete waiver. I think he can invoke.
I realized I was thinking of Zullo. Didn't that happen with his testimony? Or was that about privilege?


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