Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

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Addie
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#51

Post by Addie » Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:33 am

I agree that Harris won the second debate. Particularly good in the first half. She didn't change my mind, but she won.
Lani wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:16 am
neonzx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:26 pm
:snippity:
But I think Kamala Harris won tonight's debate. Her light mom scolding when the boys were having their "food fight" cracked me up! :lol:
I agree! Shutting down the food fight was a highlight of the debate.

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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#52

Post by Addie » Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:23 am

Update:
Politico: Thursday's debate ratings shatter previous Dem record, NBC says

The second presidential debate of the 2020 cycle was the highest-rated Democratic debate in Nielsen ratings history, NBC said Friday.

Thursday night’s contest, which featured four of the top five polling candidates, including front-runner Joe Biden, drew 18.1 million viewers over three broadcasts on NBC, MSNBC and Telemundo. The network said the debate brought in an additional 9 million viewers who livestreamed the event on NBC’s websites, Facebook, YouTube and Twitter.

The first 2020 debate, which kicked off the campaign cycle on Wednesday, garnered 15.3 million viewers, around 200,000 fewer than the previous record holder, the first 2015 Democratic debate between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders.
-------------------------------------
Mediaite: NBC’s First Democratic Debate Soars Past Ratings Expectations, With More Than 15 Million Viewers
Adding:
CNN: Harris, Biden face-off is highest-rated Democratic primary debate in history ...

Final viewership numbers won't be available until Friday afternoon. But the so-called "overnight" ratings, recording how many households tuned in, showed a 15 to 20 percent increase over Wednesday, which was night one of the two-night event.
New York Mag: Live Polling of the Debates: Good News for Harris, Warren, Biden, and Substance

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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#53

Post by neonzx » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:06 am

Colbert's debate highlights.

To which Trump replied, Fuck the law. I don't give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money.

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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#54

Post by Whatever4 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:06 am

Oh, but Williamson is awesomely... out there. Waaaayyyyy out there. Selected tweets of the past.








https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1144 ... 41410.html
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#55

Post by Slim Cognito » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:53 am

I waffle between Warren and Harris. Today I'm Harris. Preferably with Castro as her running mate, or Mayor Pete.
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#56

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:13 am

I've thought it would be Biden-Harris. Now I think Harris gets top billing and Buttigieg is starting to look like a contenda.

Warren, Sanders, Castro and Gillibrand would all be crushed by Trump. Harris and Buttigieg can stand toe to toe with him.

We'll need a few more debates, but Biden and Harris will rise to the top. And then I think Biden will fade.

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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#57

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:06 am

I would love to see Harris lead the ticket. :thumbs:
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#58

Post by MsDaisy » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:10 am

neonzx wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:26 pm
Pete did great (probably the most calm, measured, and reasoned voice on the stage -- as we've come to expect).

But I think Kamala Harris won tonight's debate. Her light mom scolding when the boys were having their "food fight" cracked me up! :lol:
Agreed, my short list has been pretty much the same all along, Harris, Buttigieg, & O’Rourke. Really any combination of those three would be a great ticket IMHO :thumbs:

There was a time when I thought Elizabeth Warren would be a shoo-in, but I'm afraid she's gotten a bit aged out and thrown in with the other more senior candidates. No intention of age shaming, I'm old too, I just think a more youngish ticket has a much better chance of exciting the base and beating Trump. If we're going to seriously "get out the vote" we need to give younger voters someone more like themselves to vote for, not a bunch of white haired Grandfather figures.(No disrespect to white haired Grandpas intended)
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#59

Post by Hurtzi » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:24 am

Harris made exactly my point (I have been largely criticized here for that) :

Biden worked with those racists not to achieve something positive but to stop busing. He may not have been a racist then, but did something which was racist. I guess he wanted to please his white voters, which is no excuse.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/us/p ... -live.html
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#60

Post by Slim Cognito » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:29 am

I really, really, really want somebody younger, new blood if you will. But I also realize that the most reliable voting block is older voters and they seem to like Biden. For now, I just want about 10-12 people to drop out so we can get down to business.
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#61

Post by voxpopuluxe » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:25 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:13 am
Warren, Sanders, Castro and Gillibrand would all be crushed by Trump. Harris and Buttigieg can stand toe to toe with him.
It's not perfectly obvious to me that a woman with Warren's experience and tenacity is more likely to be crushed by Trump than South Bend's mayor. That's an insight I wholly lack. But I've no doubt that Harris is a formidable candidate. For reasons, I'd choose Warren over Harris in a primary, but despite misgivings, I could enthusiastically—or as enthusiastically as I can muster in an apocalypse—vote for her in a general. Any ticket led by Warren or Harris or Sanders* or Buttigieg** and backed by any of other three or by Castro, Gillibrand, O' Rourke, Inslee, or Sufficiently Agreeable Player To Be Named Later, would keep me from a Draino cocktail, at least.

*Sanders is a very bad messenger with a very good message, IMO. I don't particularly like him, but I'd enthusiastically vote for him in a general and hope for the best.

**IMO, Buttigieg is a somewhat better messenger with a somewhat worse message, but the same is true.

(I like Gillibrand a lot, but for whatever reasons this seems not to be her year.)
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#62

Post by Addie » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:22 pm

Mother Jones: David Corn: Kamala Harris Shows She Has the Chops to Take on Trump

She was the only Dem who demonstrated the ability to devise a kick-ass combat strategy.
Newsweek: President Kamala Harris? Senator's Odds of Gaining Democratic Nomination Soar Following Debate Performance
The Nation: Buttigieg Got the ‘Priorities’ Question Right: Start by Fixing Our Democracy

While other candidates raised urgent issues in the second debate, the South Bend mayor spoke of the structural reforms desperately needed to address them.
The Hill: Harris, Warren biggest debate winners on betting markets
The New Yorker: Joe Biden’s Faltering Performance Raises Big Doubts About His Campaign
The Atlantic - David Frum: The Second Debate Gives Democrats Three Reasons to Worry

They won’t accept success as an answer.
The Hill: Harris campaign sells 'That Little Girl Was Me' shirts after debate confrontation with Biden
Politico: Buttigieg warns Dems not to 'play it safe' in picking 2020 candidate

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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#63

Post by Addie » Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:29 pm

:cheer: :cheer:
HuffPo

Women Owned The Democratic Debates

Sens. Warren and Harris emerged the clear winners, crushing all the outdated stereotypes about female presidential candidates. ...


On Wednesday, Warren commanded the stage and set the tone for the conversation. She won. The next day, Harris mostly walked away with the whole thing, ripping the assumed front runner, former Vice President Joe Biden, in the night’s most dramatic moment.

Together these women shattered the conventional wisdom that surrounds female politicians.

“By showing up as the leaders they are — powerful, smart and deeply connected to the issues impacting all Americans — [Warren and Harris] showed us what a president could be and it was thrilling,” said Shaunna Thomas, the co-founder of the women’s advocacy group Ultraviolet, calling Harris and Warren the winners of the debates.

But Warren and Harris weren’t even the only women in the fray — each night featured three female candidates on stage. A truly radical number. Out of the more than a hundred U.S. presidential primary debates, only five women have ever appeared onstage.
Adding:
Boston Globe: The Democratic primary is looking like a two-woman race: Warren vs. Harris
CNN: Harris, Biden face-off is highest-rated Democratic primary debate in history
Vox: Six political scientists react to the first Democratic primary debates

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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#64

Post by Hurtzi » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:05 pm

Biden and busing explained in deep:

"The former vice president once called busing “an asinine policy.”"

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEC ... id=US%3Aen
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#65

Post by Orlylicious » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:00 am

Bret Stephens, formerly WSJ, has been stirring the pot over at The Times these days. I'm surprised by any candidate eliminating private healthcare (Senator Harris walked her hand raise back), and honestly while I believe everyone deserves critical care, here in FL this month my Individual BC/BS policy increases to $1325.00 a month. So I'd like to see some of that money come in to bring these costs down, it's killer. Bret is clearly trolling in parts, but this is how the GOP will frame it and they're trying to box Democrats in on issues to try to make it seem the Democratic Party cares more for "them". Hope Tom Perez and the campaigns are thinking this through.
A Wretched Start for Democrats
The party seems interested in helping everyone except the voters it needs.
Bret Stephens Opinion Columnist June 28, 2019

Amigos demócratas,

Si ustedes siguen así, van a perder las elecciones. Y lo merecerán.

Translation for the linguistically benighted: “Democratic friends, if you go on like this, you’re going to lose the elections. And you’ll deserve it.”

In this week’s Democratic debates, it wasn’t just individual candidates who presented themselves to the public. It was also the party itself. What conclusions should ordinary people draw about what Democrats stand for, other than a thunderous repudiation of Donald Trump, and how they see America, other than as a land of unscrupulous profiteers and hapless victims?

Here’s what: a party that makes too many Americans feel like strangers in their own country. A party that puts more of its faith, and invests most of its efforts, in them instead of us.

They speak Spanish. We don’t. They are not U.S. citizens or legal residents. We are. They broke the rules to get into this country. We didn’t. They pay few or no taxes. We already pay most of those taxes. They willingly got themselves into debt. We’re asked to write it off. They don’t pay the premiums for private health insurance. We’re supposed to give up ours in exchange for some V.A.-type nightmare. They didn’t start enterprises that create employment and drive innovation. We’re expected to join the candidates in demonizing the job-creators, breaking up their businesses and taxing them to the hilt.


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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#66

Post by voxpopuluxe » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:59 am

Orlylicious wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:00 am
... Bret is clearly trolling in parts, but this is how the GOP will frame it and they're trying to box Democrats in on issues to try to make it seem the Democratic Party cares more for "them.”
That’s not “trolling;” that’s propaganda. That’s his job. He just gets invited to nicer parties because he works for the Times instead of Stormfront. And “white genocide” is the only thing the GOP has to peddle these days so they’re going to use it regardless of what any Democrat says. I guess I’m a little surprised to see it stated so baldly in the NYT, but not too.
A Wretched Start for Democrats
The party seems interested in helping everyone except the voters it needs White people
Bret Stephens Opinion Columnist June 28, 2019
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#67

Post by Addie » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:12 am

New York Mag - Frank Rich
Kamala Harris’s Debate Performance Should Scare Trump

Over this week’s two nights of debates, the top 20 candidates in the Democratic primary have had a chance to introduce themselves to a national audience. Will anything they said winnow the field?

I am happy to answer with a resounding “Yes!” I’ll take a minor risk and guess that as of this morning, the field has been winnowed by more than half. We’re down from 20 to either seven (Biden, Sanders, Warren, Harris, Buttigieg, Castro, and Klobuchar) or nine, if you hold out hope that the mellifluous but glib bros Booker and Beto will start putting at least as much effort into bold policy positions as they have into their pandering effusions of gringo Spanish. Most of the rest were dead men and women walking before they arrived onstage, merely marking time until that inevitable moment when their political lifeblood — money — dries up. They will soon be forgotten, even if they’re not yet gone.

Like most everyone else, I did not see the Kamala Harris rocket takeoff coming before last night. Her ascent was easily the most energizing spectacle of the campaign thus far. And her rightly canonized exchange with Joe Biden wasn’t mere political theater — it was substantive. By linking Biden’s praise of James Eastland and Herman Talmadge to his opposition to busing, she revealed that Biden still doesn’t understand that he didn’t only benefit from these bigots’ supposed “civility” on legislative trivia back in the day, but actively enabled at least one plank of their arch-segregationist political strategy. He has chosen not to apologize for that failure. And last night, he paid a huge price by digging himself in further. His invocation in 2019 of states’ rights to argue against busing, a 1970s federal tactic to roll back the de facto school segregation that blighted students like the young Kamala Harris, sounds like something that would pop out of the mouth of Rand Paul, not a Democratic front-runner.

When Biden finally terminated that exchange, it was with his version of Jeb Bush’s “Please clap” debacle of 2016: “My time is up, I’m sorry.” He will continue to lead in the polls, for now, but it is only a matter of time before he finds another way to blow himself up. There were portents of Biden’s vulnerability last night beyond his exchange with Harris: his constant merchandising of his relationship to Barack Obama; his heavy reliance on an old script (“A job is a lot more than a paycheck”); his swings between wound-up Uncle Joe rhetorical overkill and improvisational rustiness. (Sanders is much more practiced at recycling his greatest hits.) For more than three decades, every Biden presidential run or prospective presidential run has run aground, culminating with his last in 2008, when he dropped out after drawing only one percent of the vote in the Iowa caucuses.

There was much more to Harris than her Biden face-off. She had sharp, unambiguous answers to every policy question. She was concise. She occasionally smiled and laughed (a card not played by any of the other 19 candidates). And she constantly reminded us that she was a prosecutor not just by saying so, but by showing off her talent. There may be no word that Trump fears more than “prosecutor,” and no professional expertise that the Democratic base is more eager to see inflicted on him. At a juncture when Trump defends himself against a charge of rape by sliming women who are not his “type,” Harris’s emergence could not be better timed. She is not his “type,” heaven knows, and, not unlike her fellow San Franciscan Nancy Pelosi, she is not a “type” he knows how to deal with at any level, whether on Twitter or a debate stage.

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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#68

Post by Hurtzi » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:21 am

Come gather 'round, people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin'
And you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
The battle outside ragin'
Will soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'

Songwriter: Bob Dylan
Songtext von The Times They Are A-Changin' (Witmark Demo - 1963) © Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC, Audiam, Inc
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#69

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:01 am


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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#70

Post by p0rtia » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:41 am

voxpopuluxe wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:59 am
Orlylicious wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:00 am
... Bret is clearly trolling in parts, but this is how the GOP will frame it and they're trying to box Democrats in on issues to try to make it seem the Democratic Party cares more for "them.”
That’s not “trolling;” that’s propaganda. That’s his job. He just gets invited to nicer parties because he works for the Times instead of Stormfront. And “white genocide” is the only thing the GOP has to peddle these days so they’re going to use it regardless of what any Democrat says. I guess I’m a little surprised to see it stated so baldly in the NYT, but not too.
A Wretched Start for Democrats
The party seems interested in helping everyone except the voters it needs White people
Bret Stephens Opinion Columnist June 28, 2019
It's also along the lines of what you hear from old-fashioned Republicans, who have temporarily joined forces with the Dems, when you actually start talking policy (cf. Steve Schmidt, who was such a forceful voice against 45 and the reigning Rs--until you actually started talking economics). Scarborough also came out Friday morning with a condemnatory "worst possible result for Dems" line. He's a Biden fan, because Biden is "electable" (a word that seems more and more to be a stand in for "like us").

So Joe and Bret remind us that it is the Dems fault that 45 is there at all, and that this massive left-leaning event was horrifying, because it doesn't appeal to middle American voters who are just not into equal rights, health care for all, affordable education, DACA, voting rights, etc., and the Dems really need to back off of those issues. (And never mention the culpability of Republican voting suppression, interference from our enemies around the world, and the complicity of corporate media.)

Yeah, right.

What I saw on the stage was people who are ready to lead, not follow a barely civilized political platform. Lead, and people will follow.
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#71

Post by Slim Cognito » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:57 am

:yeah:

Beware the concern trolls. They aren't helping us. They're manipulating us into helping them.
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#72

Post by voxpopuluxe » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:44 pm

Ha. And it’s been pointed out that despite writing “They speak Spanish. We don’t,” Stephens spent his childhood in Mexico and speaks Spanish fluently. Bret Stephens’ knows exactly what he’s doing here.
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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#73

Post by Addie » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:17 pm

:like:
p0rtia wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:41 am

What I saw on the stage was people who are ready to lead, not follow a barely civilized political platform. Lead, and people will follow.

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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#74

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:53 pm


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Re: Democratic Debates 2020 Presidential

#75

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:56 pm

Meh. I really don't like Maher.

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